Healing From Emotional Abuse

Healing From Emotional Abuse: Emotional Abuse In Lesbian Relationships: With Dr. Sheena Howard

Get Your FREE COPY of  my book, 3 Signs of A Toxic Relationship, Now...
Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to take years either. Millions of other survivors around the worlds entire lives have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.
Marissa: Welcome back to Healing From Emotional Abuse. Today I have the amazing pleasure of introducing Dr. Sheena Howard. Dr. Sheena Howard just recently put out an amazing fiction book about domestic violence in the LGBTQ community. And I'm so excited to talk about it. She is a game changer. She is so smart and such a champion. I'm so excited to talk to her today. Thank you so much, Sheena, for being here.
 
Sheena: Thank you, I'm excited to be here.
 
Marissa: Awesome. Okay, let's get started. Tell us your truth.
 
Sheena: So, for me, I entered into a relationship with a woman and I had dated several women, before I ended up in an abusive relationship with a woman. But for this particular relationship, it was a time where like, I really wanted to be in a serious, committed relationship. And I was ready to kind of like, you know, settle down and stop playing around and just be and be in a serious relationship. And so, I met this woman. At the beginning, it was really amazing, you know, the whole honeymoon phase, everything's great. And I remember one of our friends commented that, Oh, you guys never seem to argue. So, this was like, probably like seven months in to the relationship. And of course, I fell in love And I thought that this was, “my person.” And I had already to myself said, Okay, this is the person, you know, I'm going to try to make this relationship work because I hadn't really had a long-term relationship with a woman before. Something that was serious. So, I committed to myself that I want to make this relationship work with this person. And at the beginning, you know, after emotions are already involved, and I was already in love with this person, I ignored like, small signs that I'm that now I know our signs of a narcissist. But you know, small things like putting rifts between my friends and I. Putting rifts between family members who I was closest to, and have strong relationships with. And then sowing seeds of doubt in my in my closest relationships is something that she would do. So, like I have an older brother, he's four years older than me. So, when I was in high school, he was in college. It was basically just me and my mom in the house. And she would say, the more she got to know about me and my family, she kind of used those details to plant like negative seeds in my head. She would say, “Oh, so basically, you were raised, like an only child." You know, that kind of like distancing that an abuser does to make you feel like you don't have anybody close to you as a support system. So, she would sow those small seeds in my head, and those were little things that I didn't I just, you know, I just oh, that's something to consider. Maybe I was kind of raised like only childhood, because my brother is older. You know, things that you don't kind of pay attention to that are actually, like, we're kind of like weakening my sense of who I was, and my sense of identity and kind of making it so my world was only about her. Eventually, I started to feel like smothered. Like if I wanted to go to the outsides of the mailbox, she would say, where are you going? Why do you have to go to the mailbox now? I want to come with you those kinds of things. But I also started to feel like I needed to, like take care of her or protect her because she was having some family issues and some job issues and things like that. So, the relationship kind of became, I guess what people call codependent — where I felt like I had like, it was my responsibility to help her and take care of her because this is the person that I decided that I wanted to be with. And she would tell me things like, you know, we're meant to be in our relationship just want to get better and better. And I believed those things I wanted to make the relationship work. But eventually, that emotional abuse turned into verbal abuse. Her calling me names telling me I had mental health disorders and on all types of things that she would just make up as a way to kind of chip away at my self-esteem. And as somebody in a relationship with someone you love, you don't think that this person is doing anything sinister, right? You don't you know, assume that somebody is attacking you or trying to abuse you in those ways. And for me, she began with physical abuse, things like trapping me in the house, not letting me leave standing in front of the door, tackling me those kinds of things. I didn't even really see those things as domestic abuse. For me, I didn't have like a mental template for that. One of the important things I learned in my experience is that, you know, we're trained to think of abuse as men abuse women, right? That's what we're trained to believe and understand. So, when you're in a relationship with someone of the same sex, for me, at least for me, it was, it was harder to identify that, “Wow, this is, you know, this is what abuse looks like.” And then couple that with feelings of shame and embarrassment. Like some of the things she was doing, I certainly didn't want to tell people that were closest to me, I didn't want to let anybody know. Part of it was trying to protect my relationship. Because if I think I want to be with this person, why would I tell my family members and friends these awful things that she's doing to me, but also, I didn't see those things as abusive. And this went on for years. And eventually, I had to call the police in an incident where I was trying to get out of the house and get away from her in a moment of her crazy rage. And it wasn't until then that I really started to understand that this is what abuse looks like, you know, just because it's a female abusing another female doesn't mean that it isn't abuse. And I ended up getting a restraining order, I ended up reaching out to one of the local domestic violence organizations here in Philadelphia, to help me get out of this situation. So, I used the resources available to me. Of course my family and friends were there with open arms to give me shelter, to help me get out of the relationship and away from this person. But it was a tough road. It was tough for me to understand that actually was a victim. You know, the word victim was really hard for me to wrap my head around. It's also hard for me to even say, say that I'm a survivor. Those labels and identities for me were hard to wrap my head around because I didn't want to see myself as a victim. But coming out of that relationship, now I just want to help people protect themselves from getting in an abusive relationship. And I also want to create awareness specifically for the LGBTQ community. Because there are research studies from the CDC and the HRC about abuse in lesbian and gay relationships. There are higher rates in the LGBTQ community than there are in the heterosexual community. As far as domestic violence and abuse, I feel like even within the community and outside of the community, this public health crisis is swept under the rug and ignored and particularly in the lesbian and gay community, they don't want to talk about this issue. Yes, you know, we know the slogan is love and love. But within that there are people really dealing with some terrible things that could cost them their lives.
 
Marissa: I'm so happy that you brought that up, that was going to be something that I really wanted to touch on. So, the LGBTQAI+ community actually has the highest rate for both sexual assault and domestic violence. For a lot of reasons. Do you know any of those reasons?
 
Sheena: You know, one of the ways that I wanted to create awareness coming out of my situation to help people protect themselves, is to write a book, right? To show that this happens to same sex couples. And one of the things that I learned is that, you know, abuse is abuse, whether it's heterosexual, or emotional abuse in lesbian relationships and gay couples. But there are some different aspects and layers within a gay relationship that needs to be discussed and taken into account. So, some of the things that an abuser might use as leverage in a gay relationship might be, you know, telling their partner that, you know, I'm going to out you. I'm going to tell people that you're lesbian or gay if you tell them about this narcissism. You can tell them about this abuse, or the high rates of homelessness in the LGBTQ community is also another factor that might keep a victim in a relationship with an abuser, because they may feel like they don't have anywhere else to go. And then also, I think, just that social script of abuse is male to female is really hard for a lesbian or gay person to wrap their head around when they're in a relationship with a narcissist who is the same sex.
 
Marissa: Thank you for all that. Honestly. I feel like it's so dumb that in 2020, we're still under the impression and still forwarding the narrative that abuse is male to female and it's only abuse if you get hit. That's not true. I think that's such crap. I'm so glad that you brought that up. Anyone can be a narcissist, and anyone can be a survivor. And I think it's really important to really push that narrative and make people know that it doesn't matter who you are, you can be a victim, you can be a survivor.
 
Sheena: Right. And when I when I was really trying to, you know, understand more about emotional abuse after I got out of my situation, I realized that I was in relationships with people that were abusive before. I didn't stay in those relationships. I got out like, as soon as I saw the signs of a toxic relationship. There's so many things that I took for granted as a lesbian, that I just kind of let it slide. Like abuse looks like somebody's not wanting you to hang out with your friends. Abuse looks like a person that doesn't allow you to hang out with your friends without them. Abuse looks like jealousy. Like, I feel like, for at least for me, dating women, I kind of let those things slide. Oh, she doesn't really love me and just really into me, that's why she always has to go everywhere with me. But no, that is a form of emotional abuse and control, because abuse is about power and control, not necessarily about the gender of the person.
 
Marissa: Absolutely. Abuse also looks like somebody's calling you incessantly over and over and over again. If you have 13 missed calls from your significant other because you didn't answer but they know you're with your family or friends, That’s abusive. If you have insane numbers of text messages, if you're getting text after text after text. And it can all be mean; it could be mixed. It could be I hate you, you’re awful, go die, I'm sorry, I love you. You know, it just follows the cycle.
 
Sheena: Exactly. And some of those more subtle, I guess I can call them subtle, forms of abuse are the ones that may be hard to notice early on in a relationship or as a relationship goes on. But they're they are very impact and damaging to one's self esteem, self-worth sense of self. I know for me, when I was in my abusive relationship, I didn't catch on to what she was doing for a while. I would say, okay, Saturday, I'm going to go visit my mother at say 10am. And it would be like 9:45am, and she still be in the bed and I would be up dressed. “Hey, come on, let's go. You know I said I was going to go visit my mother.” And since I couldn't go anywhere by myself, she had to come, too. And every single time or when it was time for me to go visit family, she would create an argument over something. So that she could get me in a place where I was so upset where I would just not go visit my family. Or she would purposely you know, make me late. So, it's 9:45am we're supposed to meet my family at 10am. And you're still in the bed and now you're creating an argument with me over, why am I rushing you? I didn't realize that those things were part of the cycle of abuse that she had me in until later on. Yeah, and so it was crazy situation where I wasn't able to go visit family because she was sabotaging my plans to go visit family. And then the times where I would say you know what, I'm leaving you stay here and you're not dressed, then she would Gaslight me and say what type of person would just leave their significant other home when they're going to visit family? Just that whole crazy, crazy making. Whereas a person who is self-critical, right? You care about your partner's feelings. You do self-reflect and say, okay, maybe that wasn't right, then you start feeling guilty. Year of that whole cycle. That because I was in it. I couldn't tell you that that was narcissism. Because particularly at the beginning, I wasn't like being hit.
 
Marissa: Right? I've said that before. If you get into a relationship with a person, and the first thing they do is punch you in the face, chances are you're going to leave.
 
Sheena: Exactly. I saw a really good example, when I was doing the research for my book, where if you put a frog in boiling water, the frog’s gonna jump right out and never come back. But if you put a frog in water, that's the perfect temperature, and you slightly turn it up every day, then the frog, she's going to get used to that temperature until it burns to death. And it's like that saying it that's exactly what it is.
 
Marissa: That's such a good example. I've never heard that before. I love it.  So, I really liked how you touched on yellow flags and red flags. Abuse is it's a cycle. And it's a cycle of pushing boundaries, right. So, like you just said, with a frog, if you turn it all the way up at the beginning, the frog is going to leave. It's a small step by step pushing boundaries. And so, it's really important to set boundaries at the beginning and you know, obviously, when you're starting a new relationship, you're in the honeymoon phase and everything is great. You don't see the subtle jabs, right.
 
Sheena: Yeah, the boundary thing is so important. And like you said, it's so difficult because at the beginning, you let a couple of things slide. Oh, yeah, I wanted to go hang out with my friends, but she wants to come. We've only been dating for like six months. That's cute. She wants to come. You don't think that — No, that's a form of control because if you tell her that she can't come, she's going to have a fit and it's going to be an argument so you don't even that anxiety that you're feeling to tell your partner that you want to go hang out with friends, that's that mental that that cycle that you're that you're getting into. Which is really tough to recognize when you're in that honeymoon phase.
 
Marissa: I will maintain this for Ever I think physical abuse is awful, you know, getting punched, getting hit, anything, the whole thing is awful. The psychological abuse and verbal abuse stay with you. Well, it's the little tinge of anxiety you get, because you don't want to piss them off, you want to go hang out with your friend, but you don't want to make them angry, so where I'm with. And you don't realize that that's pushing your boundary but it's also emotional abuse there in your head. And so those I call those yellow flags. You know, that gut feeling that it's not right, it doesn't feel right, but you don't know why. And maybe you're doubting yourself, you're so used to being wrong and told that what you're saying and feeling and doing is wrong, that you doubt yourself. And those yellow flags are so easy to ignore.
 
Sheena: Yeah. And that's why it's so important. When you're in a relationship, let the people closest to you know what's going on, because they can validate your reality. At the beginning, if I had told friends or people that are closest to me, like my mother, maybe they would have been able to just validate like, no, that's not right. That's not cool. No, that's not normal. But instead, you know, we keep our relationship behind closed doors, because we feel embarrassed, or you don't want to make this person look bad. And so, they're the ones that get to validate the narrative, and they're validating a narrative that is totally outside of reality.
 
Marissa: Right! I'm so glad you said that. Thank you. So, tell us about your book. I'm so excited to hear about it.
 
Sheena: Thank you so much. Yes. So, you know, I guess a lot of people when they come out of an emotionally abusive relationship, we want to help, we want to help protect people from going through what we went through. And so, for me, I just realized that particularly in the lesbian community, we don't talk about emotional abuse in lesbian relationships; we don't talk about these yellow and red flags that seem to be normal in same sex relationships that are actually forms of abuse. And so, for me, I wrote the fiction novel, Nina's Whisper to bring awareness to same sex domestic abuse and emotional abuse in lesbian relationships, because it's a story about one woman's journey to triumph over domestic abuse at the hands of another woman. There's a little bit of physical abuse, but the focus of the book is on emotional and mental abuse. And also understanding the narrator's thought process in trying to dissect all of these instances of a narcissist that she's facing, but that she doesn't know is abuse. For someone who's come out of an abusive relationship, you know, you understand kind of the cycle. So, you can you can understand, Nina is the main character's name, you can understand Nina's self-reflection, how her self-esteem is being broken down. But ultimately at the end you're rooting for Nina to save herself. Without giving away too much of the book that came out in April this past April 2020 And I'm also doing a graphic novel adaptation of the book, which will be out April 2021. Because I think it's so important to show we need a visual representation of lesbian emotional abuse right? If we can see it, then we're closer to understanding that this is a public health crisis for LGBTQ people, as well as heterosexual people. If we don't see it, it's harder for us to recognize when we are in these types of abusive situations.
 
Marissa: I agree. It humanizes it when you put a face to it.
 
Sheena: Exactly. Also, I hope the book shows that abuse is abuse, whether it's male to female, female to female, male to male. Abuse is abuse, you know that the playbook that abusers use is the same,
 
Marissa: Right! 100% Thank you. So where can we where can we buy your book?
 
Sheena: So, Nina's whisper is available pretty much wherever they sell books, the easiest might be Amazon. It's available on Audible, so you can listen to it if you prefer audio books. It's available as an e-book if you prefer Kindle and reading on your tablet. And it's available as a paperback if you still like those hard copies. And you can get it on websites like Barnes and Noble and Books a Million, but the easiest place will probably be Amazon and sometimes I run deals on Amazon, too with price drops.
 
Marissa: Oh, that's awesome. Do you have any social media pages that we could follow?
 
Sheena: I sure do. So, I have a Facebook fan page that is Dr. Sheena Howard. I have a Twitter account. That is Dr. Sheena Howard. And I have an Instagram page that is Dr. Sheena Howard. I really like Twitter. That's my favorite medium. So please interact with me on Twitter. Then my website is www.SheenaCHoward.com.
 
Marissa: Perfect. Thank you so much. Do you have any advice for members of the LGBTQ community that might have found themselves in narcissistic relationship?
 
Sheena: So, if you feel like you're in an abusive relationship right now, or if you if something's just not sitting right with you in this relationship — you know, one of the things that I think is important is if you feel like you're starting to dislike yourself, you're in a relationship and you're starting to dislike yourself, you feel like you're, you're being smothered; You feel like your close relationships with people have deteriorated since you've been in this relationship — the first thing, I would recommend is to talk to somebody. Whether it is the National Domestic Abuse hot-line, or it's a close family, friend or family member, talk to someone Have someone else validate your experience, and what you're going through. Of course, if there's physical abuse, reach out to your local domestic abuse organization in your county in your city, or the National Domestic Violence Hot-line. Just know that you're not alone. And there are resources and there are people that love you and care about you that you can talk to. Do not feel embarrassed.
 
Marissa: And what about people who are just out of abusive relationships?
 
Sheena: Yeah, if you're just coming out of an abusive relationship:
1) Come to terms with the fact that you're a survivor, right? You were a victim. And now you're a survivor. I think that's a really important step to moving on and getting back to a healthy place.
2) Definitely go to therapy, right? Talk to somebody.
3) If you need to get an order protection from your city, go get your order protection or your restraining order.
4) And reach back out to the people that you may be neglected during that relationship, right? build a community with a blanket of people around you, that can help you.
 
Marissa: Chances are when you share your story people are going to share back.
 
Sheena: Absolutely.
 
Marissa: Abuse is so common. When I first started sharing my story, I had tons of people telling me theirs. So, don't be afraid to speak out, especially in a community like the LGBTQ community where it is so common, and so not talked about.
 
Sheena: That's so true. Once I started sharing my stories amazing, like some of my closest friends were telling me about things that they had been through with their relationships. I'm like, oh, my goodness, I've known you for all these years and you know, we've never talked about this. So, I think that's so true. Once you start sharing your story, I think people will share their story with you. And you'll build that blanket, that community around you.
 
Marissa: Thank you so, so much for joining us today. Sheena. Oh my gosh, you're a wealth of amazing information. And I cannot wait to read your book.
 
Sheena: I really appreciate that. And let me know what you think about it.
 
Marissa: One more great, big thank you to Dr. Sheena, for being here today and talking to us about abuse in the LGBTQ plus community. It is so commonly overlooked because like Dr. Sheena said, the depiction of abuse is usually a male hurting a female. We want to change that we're both working to change that. That's not the narrative. the LGBTQ community is the highest risk for being in an abusive relationship or in a sexual assault. So, help us change the narrative Check out her book on Amazon, Barnes and Noble anywhere that books can be bought and educate yourself about how important it is to support every survivor and that it's not just a female male problem. This is an everybody problem. There's no one demographic that is more susceptible to abuse. Thank you so much for joining us today and I will talk to you guys next week.
 
If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching. Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!
 
 
narcissist. narcissism. overcoming narcissism. toxic relationship. toxic people. ways to heal. how to heal from emotional abuse. living with a narcissist. good friends. healthy relationship. intimate partner violence. intimate partner relationship. healthy relationships. self love. confidence. self esteem. low self esteem. self esteem activities. confidence exercises. breaking through the silence. what does emotional abuse do to you. what does it mean to be narcissistic. what being with a narcissist does to you. what emotional abuse does to you. learning how to trust myself again. i trust myself. i only trust myself. in myself i trust. trust myself. Can you heal from abuse.  What do I do after leaving my narcissist. What does a healthy relationship look like. IPV LGBTQ. LGBTQ domestic violence statistics. lesbian emotional abuse. lesbian emotionally abusive relationship. emotional abuse in lesbian relationships.

Healing From Emotional Abuse: Why Do I Feel Sad?: With Lauren

Get Your FREE COPY of  my book, 3 Signs of A Toxic Relationship, Now...
Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to be a five year process either. Millions of other survivors around the worlds entire lives have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.
 
Marissa: Welcome back to Healing From Emotional Abuse. Today I wanted to focus on a way to heal. A lot of people over the last couple years have told me about roller derby but I have admittedly never tried it. So I brought on an expert today, my amazing friend Lauren, who is a roller derby expert, and also a screaming activist. Thank you so much for joining us, Lauren.
 
Lauren: Thank you.
 
Marissa: So would you mind speaking your truth to us telling us a little bit about what you experienced and how you got to where you are today?
 
Lauren: Yeah, sure. Its been a long, tough, but really rewarding journey. So I grew up in a really small community just outside of Windsor, Ontario. I was a pretty average normal kid, other than being a twin, which is kind of super cool. So I grew up and one thing about me was, I was always a super awkward individual. So, I always say I was an awkward kid, I grew up into an awkward teen and now, I'm an awkward adult. But when I hit grade eight, I remember really wanting to date because a lot of my friends were, and being an awkward individuals really hard, obviously, for me to interact with people I want to date. So hit high school, grade nine, whatever. I had, you know, like fling boyfriends like you do in high school. You know, you date a week, and then you break up because it's high school. But I remember when I was like, 16, or 17, and it's weird, I vividly remember the day. I used to run a lot when I was a teenager. It's not so much now. But I try. But I do like 7k or 8k, which is insane. But I was gearing up to go do a run. And I remember starting turning left off of my parents street. It was summer or fall and I was wearing like, my favorite four years strong sweater, black compression pants and running shoes. I just put on my favorite podcasts around to. And one of my best friends called me and said, you know, like, I have this friend that really wants to meet you. He thinks you're really cute and I was like, oh, that's really cool. She said like he's older. I remember feeling really excited because I was 16. And when you're 16 and somebody older notices you, you're super excited. So did my run and then I ran home and she's like, “We'll meet up next week.” So she came, a week went by, she came she picked me up in our car and we went off to Windsor. And I've never really like, really got out of my small town other than like, my parents like dropping me off for a roller derby practice and like picking me up. So this was like a big deal to me. Like I got to go to like the big city out of my small little suburb. I remember arriving at an apartment building. We climbed two flights of stairs and we walked into apartment building and it literally felt like the chaos was erupting in this tiny apartment. Various amounts people. I like looked in the bathroom. There's some guy shaving his head into Mohawk. And I was like, that's wild but she brought me into the bedroom and like introduced me to like this boy sitting on a bed. He seemed really shy. And like over the course of like the night me and his boy got to know each other. And we had planned to hang out he following week. So did that I was convenient because my friend who'd introduced us lived in my small tiny suburb and would come and grab me and we would go to his apartment because her partner also lived with him. So everything seemed pretty ideal, pretty normal to me. I mean, this person got to know each other over the course of several weeks, you know, we shared our truths or dreams or like fears. I don't really remember like when it all went sour, but I remember my friend picking me up one day and having like a really strange conversation in the car, about something along the lines of like losing your virginity and I was like what the f***? I was like, Okay, and then like, I was like looking out the window being like, I'm done with that conversation. So she dropped me off and something like was off when we got to the apartment. There was nobody there and there's always parties going on. I like his apartment, which was like normal and I've become like, normalized to it. So it's like, this is weird. It's quiet. There's nobody here what the fuck is going on? And so my friend was like, oh, like I'll see you later. I have some errands to run. I didn't think anything of it, I was like, okay. The person my abuser asked me to go for a walk. And I said, Sure, like, let's go walk by the river, because he lived by the river in Windsor. And I remember seeing rain clouds. So we headed back to the apartment. We got back there and it literally started down-pouring. And he's like, you want to go like watch movie in my room? And I was like, yeah, sure. That's not out of the ordinary. So I remember like, going into his room and I remember like, specifically things getting hot and heavy and me being like, I don't think this is what I want right now. But him continuing, regardless of me trying to put in some form of boundaries. And then I remember like things happening that I didn't necessarily want to. And me being like, okay, like, I feel really weird after this. And like my friend driving me home. And I was just like, I don't know what just happened. But like, it definitely wasn't something that I wanted. But I didn't necessarily have the language for like assault or rape or like sexualized violence. Because I grew up Catholic. I went to Catholic grade school, and then I was attending in Catholic High School, and there wasn't much of a sexual health or a sexual education program in my school. As you can imagine, like Catholic schools don't very much like sexual education. So I was like, I don't have the language. I don't know what just happened, which was like awful. And so like, I couldn't talk about it, because I was like, I know I feel really fucked up. I can't tell my parents because like, I don't know why I feel fucked up. But I remember going home and, getting home late and my mom asking, how are you and me saying I just got to go shower. And so, I tried to just shower off the feeling that I was feeling. I was just sitting in my bed and trying to come to terms with happened. Trying to put language to what I had just experienced. But I like couldn't.
 
So, you know, we continue to date and it continued to go downhill. Eventually, he became really verbally abusive. He tried to isolate me from people I cared about, the sexualized violence continued on multiple occasions. But, I didn't talk to anybody about it, because I didn't know what, it sounds not silly, but it's because I didn't have the language for it. I was, I don't know what is happening but I know what's wrong. All this was happening kind of pseudo behind closed doors. And I started to act out, you know, at home, and my parents didn't know like what was going on. So I think we chalked it up to maybe teenage angst. Eventually to graduate high school, which is great. And like I tried my, my shot at college. I went to hair school, but I was in the midst of an abusive relationship. So, I was dealing with that and dealing with the repercussions and mental repercussions and the physical repercussions. So my parents were like, “Yeah, we still don't know what's going on.” I was kind of pseudo flunking out of college I was put on like academic probation because, I couldn't focus in school because I couldn't complete the tasks because of the abuse I was like facing from this person. So my mom took me to the doctors and my doctor is like you probably have mild ADHD. And I was like, yeah, that's probably it. That's definitely it. That's so it. Yeah. But it wasn't it was like PTSD. And I was like, Okay, I'll write you a prescription for you know, Wellbutrin, which is not something I needed. So I just zombied out in college, because I was like, I have ADHD. That is what this is. Yeah, like wasn't so I continue to kind of my behavior continued to spiral. My parents were like, we don't know what to do anymore. Because, it was just me and my mom are fighting, like physically, like screaming at each other, like, because she was trying to figure out what's going on. And I didn't know what to tell her. And like, it was just not a great situation. So eventually, my parents were like, we can't do this anymore. I got home one day, and all my stuff is packed up on the porch. And I think at this point, me and my abuser had parted ways, which was great, but like I was still like, really just fucked up from everything that I had faced, everything that it dealt with. So my parents were like, you need to leave and I was like, yep, okay, keep in mind like, the night they kicked me out. I had met my current partner. And we had decided that I was going to shave my head into a Mohawk. And I came home with like a giant like put up, follow Mohawk. My parents were like, no, like, you have to go and I was like, okay, maybe not the best choice in hairstyles. So I packed up my stuff, and called my friend. My friend, my friend came and got me. We had couch-talk for a little bit with friends.
I eventually settled with one of the people that I played Derby with for a really long time. And you know, she was like, something is really weird. Something's going on with you. Were you sexually assaulted? And I just remember crying on our couch fix. It was like holy shit, that's what happened. That's what happened to me like over a year ago, and I didn't have the language and I didn't know how to tell anybody. Holy fuck you have it. So we called a sexual assault crisis hot-line. I booked an appointment with my counselor. And she said, I think you need to tell your parents and I said, me, and I think that's a really good idea. So we have my parents over and I told them, and from like my perspective, like my parent, I said, like, you know, this has happened to me, like I was sexually assaulted by my ex-partner. And that is why I was acting so weird. And I said, you know I'm getting help. And they said, good for you.
 
For years I was like, it haunted me because I was like, that's not the reaction I really wanted. But what I didn't know is they left and like my dad who's like this, white cisgender Boomer, who doesn't cry very like masculine, masculine man just balled the whole way home, which is like a half an hour drive for where I was staying. And I was like, Oh. So my parents took time to process that and my current partner came with me to like my therapy sessions.
Roller Derby really helped me kind of get through everything that I was going through from the time that the abuse started, the time it stopped. It was a safe haven where I could use consensual violence to navigate abuse, I was feeling on the outside world and like a really safe queer fem-based space, which I think what's really important for me to have, and I think role interviews is a huge reason why I'm still here, because I had an outlet, I had a safe outlet to use my body and to use consensual violence to navigate the violence that I was facing outside of the flat track.
 
So through Derby, I actually got into activism, which was really cool. I started to go to Take Back the Night. And I remember one day just thinking, you know, fuck it. And I wrote something along the lines of like, Me, Too. I'm a sexual assault survivor and that was like, the first time I was like, publicly open about what had happened. And I remember like, survivors coming to me and talking to me about their experience. And I was like, Whoa, like, this happens to other people. This is nuts.
From there, you know, like, I was healing with therapy, I was healing with Derby, which I had the whole time. I actually, like came up publicly, I applied to university, I got into a gender studies program, as well as social justice program. And I actually started to share my story within gender studies spaces, because one of the subjects we talked about with sexualized violence and, that was the first time was open and like a university setting to be, Yeah, man, like I was sexually assaulted, I started to do a lot of activism within like sexualized violence and like queer spaces, and woman based spaces, and really just really started to be open about my story and I found survivors were like flocking to me, this is my story. This is my experience. I found a really good therapist that has helped me navigate the residual physical trauma, even years after therapy. I'm still obviously not 100%. When my partner first met me, it was a shell of a human being, I would wake up in the middle of night crying; I would not be able to be touched. There's so much stuff. I had, like I had baggage. But I've been really lucky to meet a really supportive partner through and through this. And he's there to be there and support me, to help navigate my trauma. To be a support. He's been really great.
I find like activism has really helped me share my story and be able to engage and, use something so negative that has happened to me and turn it into this fire that drives me to scream and shout my story until I can't shout anymore, because I know that there are survivors out there who are still in the closet. We're still facing abuse. It's connected me with so many amazing, amazing folks, both allies, and both survivors and experiences of sexual violence. And that's where I'm at today, I guess.
 
Marissa: Thank you so much for sharing all of that. First of all, I just want to commend you and say that your story is so empowering and your strength and your passion is really, you can hear it in your voice and I'm so happy that even though horrible things happen to you found your way and you had all of these things in place to help you. And when you found them, you just blossomed and like flourished. I'm so happy that you shared it with us and that you are where you are today and that you're active and empowering and advocating for other people. So thank you for all of your work. I want to go back just for a second, because I've heard so many good things about roller derby and admittedly, never tried it. I would love to talk about that a little bit and like dive into how that helped you.
 
Lauren: So I actually found roller derby when I was prior to my abuse. So I've been rolling Derby probably just before I met my abuser. But it is such an empowering space. It is empowering because it is centered around women, and queer folx, and Femme-identifying people. And a lot of sports aren't dominated by these types of bodies, by Tran’s folx, by queer folx, by femme-people, bi-women. And I find it gives women, queer-folk trans folk, people who don't fit into binaries, who don't fit into normalized sports, it gives them an opportunity and space to use consensual violence as a means of working through shit. You get to hit your friends and skate. And it's the most amazing sport I've ever been a part of.
 
Marissa: You can hit your friends and also skate.
 
Lauren: Thank you.
 
Marissa: That's really cool. And I don't think there are enough sports and activities for the LGBTQAI+ community, and women to really be empowered. You know, I'm actively against softball, because I personally think that here's a big yellow ball that's not even much softer, but we're going to throw an underhand at your face. And you can hit it and run instead of baseball, I was always a baseball player until I wasn't until they said, well, you're a girl. So you have to play softball. So I love the idea of taking that women and people all people are human and have this need to be active and I think that that's really cool. Whereas something like boxing, which is usually a picture of a guy, you know, a big bodybuilder guy punching another big bodybuilder guy in the face, where we need that outlet to and although I don't really condone violence as like a form of healing, I think that this sounds really cool. Because it's active and it's a team sport, right? It's not individual.
 
Lauren: Yeah, it is a team sport. It is. My Derby team is like my family like they are through and through amazing people.
 
Marissa: That's awesome. So through that, you found strength and empowerment and support, right? That kind of prompted you to be more vocal about what you were going through. Because you realize you weren't alone and you were supported.
 
Lauren: Yeah, absolutely. It's kind of funny, like Derby always, I've always had like Derby and activism kind of like cross paths a lot of time. And through Derby, Yeah I was  like, yeah, maybe I'm not alone. And like, I found activism. And I was like, No, I'm definitely not alone. Yeah.
 
Marissa: What made me reach out to you about speaking with us today was a post you put on Facebook was an awesome poster of you. Can you tell me a little bit about what that was?
 
Lauren: Yeah, that was actually the night I was talking about. So that's my first ever poster that I made coming out as like a sexualized violence survivor. I had made a poster for Take Back the Night. And I was like, “Man, you know, like, fuck it. Like, there's got to be other people out there too.” So I made it my body my choice but underneath that I put like, hashtag me too, or a sexual assault survivor or something like that.
 
Marissa: It was cool. It was a picture of a female body. And yeah, pointing to you while you're holding the sign that said, I'm a survivor or I’m a sexual violence survivor. And I was so like, I saw that picture. And I was so excited. Because that was so empowering and uplifting, and you made something that is so dark in your life.,You made yourself extremely vulnerable, but in a very empowering way. Does that make sense?
 
Lauren: Yeah, it does. Yeah, I decided that I wasn't going to let my abuser or the abuse control my narrative or control my life. I was going to take it back.
 
Marissa: In what other ways have you been active in supporting or advocating for survivors or like activities on campuses and stuff?
 
Lauren: Oh, man. So we did something really, really cool on my campus this year. I really spearheaded the event. We're gonna be having an every year, Skate Night for Survivors. So one of my friends actually owns a skate company and they supply rental skates to a roller rink here in London, Ontario. Their skates are very portable so they're able to bring them to campus, and I worked in tandem I'm with the sexual education coordinator on my campus and we put on a free skate night where survivors could come lace up skates and like it was like a roller disco. We played music and they could skate around.
 
Marissa: I through my nonprofit, Within Your Reach, would love to partner with you.
 
Lauren: That'd be amazing.
 
Marissa: Okay, awesome. So we'll talk more about that not on the pod. Yeah. But I think that's such a cool idea. So now you're taking something that helped you, and that you're very passionate about. And you're like extending a hand to help uplift survivors, other survivors. That's incredible.
 
Lauren: Thank you.
 
Marissa: Welcome. I would love if you could give maybe like one or two pieces of advice to other survivors who are still feeling the way you felt where you didn't know the language. And you were really lost and confused and like couldn't put a word on it because it is so common, even outside of Catholic school. The public schools, at least where I grew up, weren't great at talking about unsafe sexual practices outside of you could get pregnant and die like Mean Girls, if you have sex, you will get clamydia and die. Like that's what we got and so a lot of people feel the same way you felt so what pieces of advice would you give to those people to help them understand that what they're going through is unfortunately common, and help them out of that.
 
Lauren: Just know that like, you're not alone that survivors experiences and victims of sexualized violence walk among you, like the person next to you can be a survivor. Just know that I know it's really difficult right now to see that you're not alone. But you are not alone. It's okay to reach out and it's okay to ask for help and find people that you trust and tell them if you can. Express yourself. If something is no Katie, if it doesn't feel okay, then it's probably not okay. Just trust your gut instinct.
 
Marissa: That's awesome advice. Thank you so much for joining us, Lauren. I am so excited to have you on here. I'm excited for everything that you're doing. And for our future partnership. I am so honored that you chose to speak with us today. And thank you so much for helping survivors in the ways that you are.
 
Lauren: Thank you for having me on.
 
Hey! If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching. Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!
 
Health education research. sexual health education. health education. intimate partner violence. sexualized. sexualization. toxic relationship. toxic partner. how to heal from abuse. healthy relationship. couple goals. relationship goals. self love. confidence.

Healing From Emotional Abuse: I Need To Change My Life

Get Your FREE COPY of  my book, 3 Signs of A Toxic Relationship, Now...
Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to be a five year process either. Millions of other survivors around the worlds entires lives have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.
 
This time, right now while we’re stuck in our homes, is a great time to click the reset button.  Think about it, our responsibilities lie with leaving other people alone to take care of themselves while we care for ourselves and our families.  If there was ever a perfect time to take a step back and be introspective into our lives, now is that time.  Right now, I want you to make a list of all the people in your life that make you feel extremely happy, inspired, joyous, comfortable, etc. Everyone who elicits a feeling of positivity.  Think about it.  Come up with a list of 25 people.  People who inspire you to do better, be better.  People who make you feel moved. People whose company you’re craving right now because you miss their laugh or laughing with them.  I’m not trying to make you miss anyone or feel sad, there is a point to this, I promise. 
 
Now, on a different piece of paper, make another list. Make a list of the people that are in your life that elicit a negative feeling.  It can be anyone.  A family member  that is always on your case, or saying things that always make you feel bad.  An ex or a friend. People that make you feel stressed or anxious. Put people on that list that are in your friend group, or in your life, but make you feel bad or put you down.  Anyone who says or does things that make you feel insecure, inferior, stupid or uncomfortable.
 
Now, take a look at the good list and the bad list.  The good list are the people you should surround yourself with after this is all over.  We are all quarantined right now, and I’m sure you’ve felt, as everyone has, that feeling of isolation and loneliness.  This is the worst part of being social creatures.  We crave social interaction, love and connection. So, from now on, moving forward, let’s work to not take our treasured time and energy for granted.  The time we share with others should be reserved for those that make us feel good.  Who lift us up and are worth our time. Healthy relationships and good friendships.  Not the toxic people and toxic relationships that bring us down due to their own insecurities.
 
SO, see the value in yourself and your time. The people on your toxic friend list, it’s time to cut them out. And now is the best time because you don’t have to face them for at least another month.  When all of this is over, spend your time with positive friendships and people who show you love and kindness.  You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with.  Choose the people who bring your average and your happiness up. 
 
Next task.  I want you to walk around your home (I made a Facebook Live about this last week… see below)
https://www.facebook.com/1759007031074310/videos/202121171236407
Walk around your home and write down all of the unfinished projects, small and large tasks, anything that you’ve been putting off.  Like reorganizing and cleaning out your cabinets or closets.  Hanging pictures, cleaning out your fridge, reorganizing your room, reorganizing your shelves, anything.  Call this your tolerations list.  Your list of the things in your home and in your life that you tolerate. 
 
After you’ve made your list, write down a deadline of when you will finish or fix each project or item.  They can be once per week, but who are you kidding there’s not much else to be doing. And you can do this with items as well. Anything in your home that you’ve been meaning to get rid of, but haven’t gotten around to it yet, toss it.  Get negative energy out of your home. Like Marie Kondo said, if it doesn’t bring you joy, get rid of it.  Release the negative energy and toxicity from your environment.  Any pictures or items that you feel obligated to hold on to, put it somewhere where it won’t bother you. 
 
How to get negative energy out of your house.  Get negative energy out of your house.
 
Make your house nice, clean, and healthy. This is how to create positive energy at home, and how to create good energy in your home.
 
Print out and decorate quotes and phrases that make you feel empowered and fill your space with them.  And also, look for fun pictures you love of places that you went, and good people that you’re with, that elicit a feeling of joy.  Print them out and hang them around your house, or around your space.   I used to have five hand drawn posters next to my mirror in my bedroom, and every day when I woke up and got ready for work, I would see these quotes and it would fill my heart and spirit.  It made me feel happy and empowered, and it’ll work for you too.
Find quotes, phrases and words that speak to you.  I have friends that post verses from the bible, because that’s what empowers them.  Me, I really love Dr. Seuss.
Whats’s your quote?  What’s that one quote that when you hear it, it makes you feel strong and empowered? It gives you life. 
 
Although it can be extremely difficult to let go of our history and of the people, to our dismay or not, have been around and created relationships with, sometimes it has to be done.  And the same thing goes with items.  I wouldn’t consider myself materialistic or a hoarder but I keep a lot of sentimental things.  I keep shoeboxes filled with items from my past healthy relationships.  A full storage bin filled with photographs, cards, event tickets and memories.  But these are all things that bring me immense joy. 
At one point, I was also keeping things that brought bad bad memories that I didn’t love.  But I kept them because I was afraid to get rid of them.  That if I threw them out, I’d forget the memories. 
 
But I learned something since then, that those things carried negative energy and toxicity and I didn’t want to pollute my space with them anymore.  What are some things you’re holding on to, whether it be a physical item, a memory or a person, that don’t make you feel good?  That weigh you down.  That now, thinking forward, getting rid of it will release toxicity and release negative energy.  Think of one thing and commit to getting rid of it today.  Find it and throw it out right now.
 
I got into Young Living because I need to change my life. I wanted more positivity, and Young Living gave me the resources to expedite my bad days into good days.  I have anxiety and depression, and when those two things act up, my whole body is down, sometimes for days, weeks  or months.  This past weekend was an awful weekend for me.  I consumed way too much junk food, I cried for a lot of the weekend, and I social-isolated from everyone.  Even the people that I love and the person that I live with.  Sometimes, I just can’t help it but instead of that being weeks or months, which in the past it has been, it was one day and a half.  And that isn’t all due to Young Living, but to the resilience I’ve built up over the last 11 years.  The positive self-talk I’ve learned and the principles that I live by. 
 
You have to find and master the things that work for you.  For me, it’s essential oils and flower essences. My mom is a flower essence practitioner, and so I usually go to her when I’m having a bad time.  And my guilty pleasure is Nicholas Sparks movies.  I know.  It’s pretty basic.  But it’s also looking myself in the mirror and changing my self talk.  It’s telling myself that I can succeed and I will succeed instead of beating myself up, to which I did a ton of this weekend. 
 
What’s one thing that works for you on your bad days?  Like I said, for me, I watch Nicholas Sparks movies and cover myself in essential oils.  And that helps me get out of my funk. That helps me relieve my bad day, and it helps me heal.  If you haven’t tried Young Living Essential Oils, I totally recommend them. 
 
www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/oils
 
Reach out to me and I will happily give you all the information that I have.  And if you decide to try it, I’ll pay for your shipping. I believe in them that much.
 
These principles are the foundations for the content I built. This isn’t a sales pitch and I’m not in it for your money.  What I want is your trust. I want you to trust me when I say every program I create for survivors of abuse, survivors of narcissism, or people who need a confidence boost or some additional positivity in their lives, is truly deeply with that in mind.  These are the systems and actions I take when I’m in my worst headspace to revitalize myself and get myself back on my feet.  I want to help everyone feel as strong as I do on my strongest days because I know what it’s like to feel broken and surrounded by negativity and surrounded by toxicity.  It’s hard.  It’s so hard to pull yourself out of that.  But having the tools ready, it’s like knowing emotional karate.  You don’t want to have to use it, but sometimes you need to just to be prepared.
 
Thank you for listening, and I really hope these principles, ideas and activities  will help you change your headspace, change your environment and change your life.  What I want is for everybody to change their life into the most positive it can be. And that starts with your environment and your social circle.  Once you master those, everything else is a cakewalk.  Thank you again for joining me to day.  I’m so excited to work with everyone and talk to everyone about what quotes they’ve decorated their space with and the kind of people that inspire them. And the people they are going to spend their time with now when quarantine is over.
 
Hey! If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching.  Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!

Healing From Emotional Abuse: MST Military : With Amy

Get Your FREE COPY of  my book, 3 Signs of A Toxic Relationship, Now...
Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to be a five year process either. Millions of other survivors around the worlds entire lives have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.
 
Marissa:
Hey everyone, welcome back to healing from emotional abuse. For the last few weeks, I've brought on survivors of sexual assault to talk a little bit about what they went through, and also how they healed and advice that they have for other survivors. I think it's really important to share our stories. Hence the breaking through our silence podcast, breaking through the silence my book series, I just think that the most important step and the first step towards healing is speaking about it. So if I can find as many voices to share their stories as I can, the hope is, it'll empower other survivors who are still silenced, to break their silence and feel empowered and strong about talking about it. It'll empower other survivors to speak out and tell their story. I just want you to know that you're not alone. And every person that's come on this podcast this month, and shared their story has shared the same goal. We all just want survivors to be unsilenced, to break through that barrier and know that you are never alone, and you have millions of other people who have a shared experience with you to help you through it. This is our last episode for Sexual Assault Awareness Month. And last but not least, I wanted to introduce one of my dear friends, Amy. Amy is a champion. She was abused when she was a child and has overcome so much adversity in relation to that and morphed into this powerhouse, advocate. I'm so honored to bring her on here. She's worked in several capacities with military and civilians. And she continues every single day to fight for and advocate for survivors around the world. Thank you so much for being here. Amy. I'm so excited.
 
Amy:
Well, thank you for having me.
 
Marissa:
Would you mind telling us whatever you're comfortable with about your truth about what happened to you?
 
Amy:
Well, you know, it's a very young, old teenager, right? So we're always like, 14 going on 21. And my friend and I had the really great plan that we were going to go to the party where you had met these younger soldiers, and they invited us to a party. And so we went. And I really liked this one boy. I mean, he was, of course, a man. But I looked at them kind of the same as me. And he kissed me, and I really liked it. And then he wanted to kiss somewhere else in the more private area. And so I went with him, because he was really nice and handsome. And when I told him to stop, he wouldn't stop. And when I told him I was a virgin and started crying. He was like, No, you're not. Even afterwards, like he walked me part of the way home. And then I got caught for being out past curfew. And then when they looked at me, they, they saw what had happened. And you know, it was just kind of an out of body experience. And almost like the trauma that it caused on my family was more than actually the assault. And then some other things happened after that, because I started acting out. Maybe we'll get into that part another time. But I think, you know, he actually tried to make it seem like I was his girlfriend afterwards. I mean, I think that was one of the most bizarre things. So there was this, like, mental fight in my head, about me crying to him and telling him No, and saying that I was a virgin, and then afterwards and acting like he really cared about me. So that really started a bad self image, low self esteem and acting out as a teenager. So I think that that really placed me on a path that I didn't even understand that I was on until I became an adult. And I don't think people really understand that when people are traumatized like that, that they internalize a lot of things and begin to have behaviors that seem counter intuitive of someone that you would house some people think that you would act as a victim of rape, right?
 
Marissa:
100%
 
Amy:
I was more comfortable in a combative relationship, where I didn't feel valued. And actually pushed away more healthy people because I didn't feel like I deserved that. And I think that's something that a lot of people deal with when they have been traumatized and haven't been able to have that cognitive behavioral therapy to understand that it's really not about any of your behaviors. So for me, you know, working with clients now, when the general populace as a what were they doing or you know, there, there's things that people can do men and women to avoid being sexually assaulted. It's a really huge trigger for me. You know? So I mean, should there be an expectation, if you and your friend meet a bunch of handsome young men within your age bracket, they were adults, but we weren't. But you still, you know, you as, as a young adult, you don't see a 19-20 year old as being that much different as you. It was like, right before my 15th birthday, and my friend was 16. Right? So we felt we were that age to, even though we, we didn't understand like, emotionally, maturity wise, we weren't. But in your teenage narcissistic brain, you don't see it that way.
 
Marissa:
And I want to go back to something because you brushed over something that I wanted to definitely comment on. A lot of people, especially if you were assaulted as like a teenager, young adult, when you're still kind of trying to find yourself, you lose that control that control of your body. And a lot of times very often, people will take that lesson as, “well, if people are going to use me like this anyways, if my body's only good for sex, then I want to at least be in control of it.” I mean, even if those are the words that are said, that creates this, like expectation that your body is an item or an object, and then causes a lot of promiscuity.
 
Amy:
Oh, 100%. Absolutely. Because you feel like that's the only i think it's it's more complicated than than just the promiscuity. It's a real sick, twisted, kind of, like you want to be loved so bad, but you want to be in control, but you only get attention and it's negative attention. It compounds right. So any attention is better than no attention. Right? The negative attention is easier to get.
 
Marissa:
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And it's, you're right, it's easier to get, and it takes less time and energy for a young woman, all you have to do is you know, wear a tank top in school and all the boys are looking at your shoulders and you know, it's such a double standard.
 
Amy:
What like a self-fulfilling prophecy too, right. 
 
Marissa:
Yeah, that's what I was going for.
 
Amy:
It's like the cycle of violence, right? And it's what society feeds off of, and continues the victim blaming cycle, right? Because you as the victim are actually trying to take control of your life. But then you're projecting this other image, which makes people feel like you are not a victim.
 
Marissa:
Right? And that goes back to what society paints as the perfect victim, if you're not a young girl, hysterically crying, then you're not a real victim, you know? And there's that double standard.
 
Amy:
Well, you and you take my situation, for example, I was 14, I was a virgin. Right. But I had snuck out of the house, and I drank a Barros & James peach wine cooler And, you know, I was out past curfew. So they took all of those into account and made it to be like somehow my responsibility,
 
Marissa:
Right, even though your child and not legally even allowed to consent, depending on the state.
 
 
 
Amy:
Well, I was not at an age of consent at all. If you think about it was a drug facilitated sexual assault, you had a 14 year old girl that was being fed wine coolers, and innocent kids lead it to a sexual assault. That is, by definition, the number one rape scenario in the world.
 
Marissa:
How do people respond when your family was going through it? Did you speak about it at all?
 
Amy:
Yeah, well, I mean, it was while she was wearing short shorts, and a tank top and she was at the party and she was drinking and she lied. It was all about my behavior.
 
Marissa:
And not about the fact that somebody took advantage of you as a child.
 
Amy:
Right. And I think still to this day, there's some issue with you know, our family was sent to a different location away from my dad, because he had a job to do. And he couldn't, you know, there was this whole, like, your family can't be managed in this environment. Right?
 
Marissa:
Oh, my God. So they forced you guys. Were you living on a base?
 
Amy:
Yeah. So we were sent back stateside, which is a very normal response for the military.
 
Marissa:
That's disgusting. So instead of punishing the person who, actually abused you…
 
Amy:
Our family with separated
 
Marissa:
That’s disgusting.
 
Amy:
I'm not crying right now, I might cry. You know, it's weird because, you know, sometimes I do get upset about it. But more often, my response is I’m at a place where it gives me drive. Right? When I talk about it triggers me when people talk about victims behaviors and things like that. I'm just like, well, you think for some reason that, that individual wouldn't have found another vulnerable person to take advantage of and victimize. 
 
Marissa:
Right? If they're going to abuse somebody, it's not always about who, you know, it's a matter of needing to control and have power over someone.
 
Amy:
It's error and opportunity, right? It's access. It's the same dynamic as why I'm fundamentally against people telling their children to give relatives or friends, “Oh, kids go and give so and so hug, tell them Goodbye, or give them a kiss on the cheek.  Go say thank you…” No, quit telling people that we owe them some kind of physical affection for approval.
 
Marissa:
I agree
 
Amy:It’s not appropriate.
 
Marissa:
Yeah, you don't know the situation, you don't know what the child has to know that they are in control their body and if they are uncomfortable hugging somebody or giving someone a kiss, that they do not have to? I absolutely agree.
 
Amy:
I mean, somehow the kind of legalized prostitution that we have established in the dating world, that somehow a level of doting or flattery, or the level of expenditure for a date somehow equates to some kind of physical repayment.
 
Marissa:
It's called manipulation. You know, that's why I am fundamentally against the word friend zone. You know, you're not getting friend zone, because you are nice to somebody and they're not interested in you sexually. You were being a friend. And it having an ulterior motive on that friendship is a manipulation of the friendship and of the person.
 
Amy:
And if you think about it like this, why can't I just want to have sex with somebody just because I feel like it? You know, why should I be obligated because you took me to Smith & Wollensky’s, to an expensive dinner and then drinks on the rooftop at a ritzy bottle service. So now I owe you oral sex. Or maybe like, I'm just having fun with you. And we could have had a picnic in the park and went to your rooftop private deck. And I would just felt like giving you oral sex. It shouldn't matter. There shouldn't be an expectation of economic output somehow gives you physical… Like, why don’t we just start doing dollar for dollar?  I mean, I don't know for you if as as a woman you've ever experienced someone being like, well, you paid $150. For dinner, we had a $75 bar tab. So now you're up to $225. Right? So you think that my vagina is worth $225?
 
Marissa:
That's not nearly enough.
 
Amy:
Right? So I mean, if we're gonna have an equitable exchange, escorts that don't even give any kind of sexual pleasure at the end of the night make more money than that. So if you just wanted something to sit there and be pretty, we're gonna have to reevaluate this. I'm saying like, this is an issue, right? But somehow it yields to all these other social issues that somehow somebody is nice to you, you owe them something, right. Why can't you just say thank you, and be appreciative and let something …
 
Marissa:
Build and grow.
 
Amy:
Yeah, become something organically.
 
Marissa:
That's what it should be. But I think that, I don't know, people become so greedy, and they value their money more than they value, your ability to make decisions for yourself. I don't owe anybody anything. Nobody owes anyone anything. Not sex, not your body, not nothing, unless it's agreed upon.
 
Amy:
But those those thought processes yield to the same rape culture, right? It's like why people don't have any kind of, I don't know if anger is the right word I wanted. Okay. So, if a child is sexually abused, right, people are out of control up in arms, right? So if I'm married for 10 years, and my husband gets drunk and comes home and slaps me around a little bit, not enough to bruise me up. Just kind of read my cheeks a little bit and then rapes me. People really don't get excited about that. They don't seem to have this that is the same type of trauma, when it is. When it's someone you know, love and trust, that's kind of like, "Well, you've had sex with him, like, I don't know, over the course of how many years, whatever, once a month times 12 times 10. So whatever, I'm just throwing out numbers, so you've had sex with him? At least 120 times a year. So what what's the problem with this time.” It's kind of how it's looked at, right?
 
Marissa:
Mm hmm. Yep.
 
Amy:
You got it on ya. You've been giving it to them anyway. So why are you so upset now? All of these thought processes continue to perpetuate the same thing? Why are rapes going up in our society?
 
Marissa:
Because we don't address rape culture the right way, we paint a perfect victim. And if you don't sit in that perfect victims, exact identity, you're not a victim.
 
Amy:
And I mean, and I'm not saying this is the thing, I'm just kind of throwing a thought, is it because women are generally being an empowering themselves in the workplace, and taking on different roles. And so the best way to reduce and take away our power is to sexually harass us, or take our power away by physically assaulting us with rape.
 
Marissa:
I'm sure that has a lot to do with it. I think it's also just a power struggle.
 
Amy:
If you go back to the Viking culture, like Viking women used to run the show. And then they t picked the men that were the strongest to have children with their children would survive in their rough surroundings and culture and all of these things. And then they started being overpowered. And they became victims of rape and then the power balance changed.
 
Marissa:
That's so interesting. I didn't know that.
 
Amy:
Yeah, so I find as a professional woman, thank God, as professional woman, I have done my best to protect myself and haven't been like, actually raped, but I have been sexually assaulted via rear and grab. You know, you don't even think about it because someone grabbed your rear end. It's not the same level of trauma, but is the same level of I don't really give a shit about you. But what I have experienced quite frequently is when they can't attack my character, or my ability, or my professionalism, they somehow figure out a way to say that I my clothes are somehow too attractive,
 
Marissa:
Or too small, or, you know, make comments about your body. They do that to me. They used to do that to me all the time.
 
Amy:
Right? To the point where like, I started wearing turtlenecks to work. One of my friends is like, well, you're not making excuses for but you know, she's fallen into that same. Like, would rather protect herself and go against grain. She's like, “Well, Amy, you know, you shouldn't have gotten a boob job and you wouldn't have so much attention.” I'm like, these are mine. Even if I did get a boob job that, like it has no bearing,. And she's like, “Because even with turtlenecks, you can't hide them.” I'm like, Well, I can't do anything with them. Because this is how God made my body. And so what if I would have gotten a boob job? What's the big deal? And she was right. It didn't matter if I was wearing a sweater or a turtleneck, or a V neck or a dress or a sweater-dress or Michael Kors dress or whatever. There's certain things it is just what it is. And somehow I'm responsible for you taking, staring at me and trying to take my power by saying there's something about my body that makes me less valuable at work?
 
Marissa:
That it's disgusting. And it's just a means to silence women and silence people by making them feel inferior in their bodies. It's not your fault that you were born  with boobs. It's and it's not your fault. If you buy boobs, you know, if you haven't you make you can't control anyone else’s behavior. Because you did something for you. That's not your problem. That is the offender's problem always. They're the ones that make the choice.
 
Amy:
Sometimes not even the offender. That is the worst issue. Other people his opinions, like perpetuate rape culture. Yeah, I'm like you guys are helping the rapist? Yo, what's going on here?
 
Marissa:
People who perpetuate rape culture, encourage rapists, you're 100% on point. We know we make it so easy for them. Because we're already telling people that they shouldn't be who they are in their bodies and we're telling people they shouldn't wear certain things and if I'm comfortable wearing booty shorts and it tank top to a party. And I want to that does not mean somebody gets to touch or comment or take any part of my body that is not theirs. It is still my body.
 
Amy:
Well, I'll tell you an interesting phenomenon. I have never in all my life, the safest I’ve felt in my body is being a nude beach. Yes, like I didn't feel ogled, I wasn't stared at, I wasn't hit on, I was just left alone, to be in my own body and my own safe space, and enjoy all the vitamin D to every part of my parts.
 
Marissa:
I feel like that's because everyone's in the same vulnerable place. If you can feel vulnerable, you know, in your body or naked, but everyone is showing all they've got, you know, so what makes you so different from everyone else?
 
Amy:
Exactly. Well, and I think there's also hard rules, no cameras, no sexual behavior, you know, all of these things. There no creep, under a tent, or under an umbrella with a big hat, you know, taking secret pictures of people.
 
Marissa:
That makes sense. And other cultures like other countries are very cavalier about nude beaches. I think America has a big problem with nudity. Whereas other countries have a big problem with the violence we portray in our media, we have a problem with the way that they are more sexually open or aware.
 
Amy:
Even being working in rape crisis, working with child sexual assault. If you are against a rape culture, that somehow you are a man hating, sexist, feminist, right? And that you don't enjoy sex; That all men are bad; That you don't like men; And you hate sex. And that is completely bad and you should be some kind of nun. It's strange, and not liking rape does not mean you don't like sex. They are not the same thing.
 
Marissa:
Exactly. That's what I was just about to say.
 
Amy:
I needed to get it through people like schools, rape crisis counselors and people that intervene in rape situations and help people get the help they need so they can get their power back, do not hate men, and do not hate sex.
 
Marissa:
I've never heard that one. But I appreciate you bringing that up.
 
Amy:
I want to put this out as a public service announcement for men and women, regardless of who you like to have the sex with. If you are respectful of people's bodies, if you are respectful of their time and space, and where they're at emotionally, and you give them love and honesty, they will want to make love to you, if they are attracted to you. Because our bodies are built to want to have sexual pleasure. You know, we are one of the only other mammals in the world that have sex for pleasure. We're supposed to like it. It's supposed to be enjoyable, it's healthy for you. It's healthy, to have orgasms, to release those endorphins. It's healthy to share that intimacy with somebody that you trust. All of that is healthy. What is not healthy, is taking somebody's body for your own pleasure and abusing them, and hurting them.
 
Marissa:
Absolutely. Thank you for that PSA. So what are you doing? So we know you're working with rape crisis. What do you do? What are you doing? What projects are you working on?
 
Amy:
So right now, we've had a lot of forward movement and being more educated, in child sexual abuse, and cycle’s of violence, and families with pedophilia. And we've been more spoken out about rape situations and things like that. But unfortunately, from my perspective as a professional, we have gone away from like the grassroots of actually helping the people that have been traumatized, to spending millions of dollars on these overarching organizations that kind of leave the victims at the wayside. And don't get to the root of the problem and take the initial crisis, and don't follow that person through to the end state. Also, working within the confines that you know, money has become an issue. And there's been a lot of abuse of power where people haven't been able to get the help that they need, because they're stuck in these organizations that have a very structured hierarchy and giving people an alternative source to find that help outside of those confines.
 
Marissa:
No, it does. When I used to work for the military, one of the things that I would do is help people that were sexually assaulted, either on deployment or not. And I would very seldom connect them to people, military related. And I would outsource to other resources to therapists and programs that were not related to the military. Because the way the military handled it was so regimented, and truly, like incorrect. It wasn't in good conscience. I couldn't in good conscience, relate them to like the VA, who I know is not going to help them, or to their commander who I knew was not going to help them.
 
Amy:
Well, I think help looks different, right? Say, for example, that I work at McDonald's, and I need this job to take care of my family. And I've worked there, maybe nine months, in the shift supervisor has worked there10 years, and it’s franchise, McDonald's, and he's friends with the owner andnd the manager. And I become sexually assaulted, and then it becomes the owner of the McDonald’s right, absolute right, undeniable, like they have carte blanche authority over whether their shift leader - that gives them the most returns, the most capital, the largest producing revenue - that  owner gets to decide whether that shift leader that raped to me gets a slap on the hand or actually punished. How well do you think that that works?
 
Marissa:
Probably not? Well, I'm pretty sure that you the employee, are expendable. And the person they've had this relationship with is easier to believe, because they, “Know them better.”
 
Amy:
And they are equitable for them, right?
 
Marissa:
Mm hmm.
 
Amy:
And then my other colleagues, that also worked for the same shift leader, well, that shift leader all gives them all the best like shifts. I'm another single mother that works there. And that shift leader knows that I have to be off on Mondays because my kid has speech therapy. And they always make whether I have to work on Mondays or not, they always make arrangements for me that I always am off to go take my childhood speech therapy. Am I going to retaliate against you that are going to jack up my way of life? Am I going to side with the shift leader? Or, am I going to support my colleague?
 
Marissa:
That's a really good analogy. It's a great way to put it. You're right, because there are so many sides to the stories and so many people being affected, that we kind of lose sight of the one important factor and that safety.
 
Amy:
And there's no oversight, right? Right. As the owner of McDonald's, I can be like, “Well, you know, in order to protect my product, to protect my brand, then none of the things that we're doing to punish the shift leader is releasable to the public.” Now, let me ask you, let's see, let's pick a town. I don't know just say Boulder, Colorado, right. And that McDonald's owner owns 10 stores, right? That shift leader then gets promoted after they raped the one person. And we don't know what happened to them, because it might leak our French fry recipe out, right. So then that shift leader gets promoted to be the regional shift leader. And they raped two more people, and they keep their job. And then they raped five more people. So, now we're up to eight people sexually assaulted by one person, one shift leader, but he makes a lot of money. He does a good job for that McDonald's in Boulder. And this is the like a scenario. There's no such thing didn't happen in Boulder. Like, I'll just give that caveat. This is a made up scenario. And that eighth person that gets sexually assaulted, finds out that back in the day, there was a number one rape victim, they got screwed over. And they call that person be like, you know what, I'm sorry, that happened to you, too. You know, I know. I'm the eighth person who's done this to. What the hell? Then, the first and the eighth person decides to go outside of that McDonald's hierarchy. And they go to the press and the press is like holy shit. Now what do you think the community in Boulder, Colorado would say to that?
 
Marissa:
They get really mad that they allowed, I hope, I hope they get really mad that McDonald's owner allowed that person to go on a raping spree. I mean, I hope..
 
Amy:
I think that they would boycott that McDonald's, because they're allowing people to be raped in order to make money. To protect their brand,
 
Marissa:
Exactly. What's the economic value of a person, the monetary value of a human being?
 
Amy:
So you take that scenario, and you feed it into the overarching hierarchy of the military? Who does have the power to say, you can't know about that? Because it might affect national security? Where does that leave somebody? Especially service members that still cannot utilize a lot of our other given rights? Because the Fairness Doctrine?
 
Marissa:
What's that?
 
Amy:
That says that service members can't sue the military for damages.
 
Marissa:
They're not allowed to sue at all?
 
Amy:
They can’t. There's a caveat right now for medical malpractice, but it's very, very narrow. 
 
Marissa:
Hmm. So the military can allow someone to hurt you, you can transfer them, they can mistreat you, they can gaslight you, transfer you wherever they want, they can take away your rights and privileges as a service member - which most of the time are what  give you value, your ability to you know, have a gun and your ability to defend. They took both those things away from you. And you can't sue them for any of it. You can't retaliate for any of it.
 
Amy:
You can't protect yourself. I can tell you, I've talked to many service members active and retired and medically discharged, that they were told to suck it up.
 
Marissa:
I believe the term that I heard a lot was “Unfuck yourself.”
 
Amy:
That's another term that they use quite frequently, but no, and I want to make it very clear. It depends on who's in charge, right? Like not all owners and McDonald's not all leaders military are bad. But when everything relies on that person's good or bad decision making, and there's no oversight, where do you have it? I don't think that the general public also knows that a commander in the military can decide to accept a level of risk. It's their decision. And they can be advised, but nobody has there's no force function.
 
Marissa:
That's a lot of power for one person.
 
Amy:
It is. And then you add in the cloak of we can't be transparent because the national security. There is nothing about somebody being raped or sexually assaulted, that has an adverse effect on national security. The one thing that would have adverse effect on national security is rapists being allowed to continue to rape people, especially in a deployed environment. How mission ready do you think your soldiers, men and women, service members, sailors Airmen; How well do you think they're going to be able to carry out their mission to protect our freedom if they're worried that someone's going to sexually assault them? And oh, by the way, if you say anything, you need to figure it out yourself.
 
Marissa:
So what can we as advocates and the public do to help service members feel more powerful or to feel more protected? Like how can we help?
 
Amy:
And that's part of what we're working to establish. Yes, you are service members, and yes, you have different confines, because you are. But there, there are certain things that can't be taken away from you. If you're a victim of a violent crime, there are federal victim crime rights that have to be upheld by the military, as well as in civilian world. And those things are not being held to a standard. You have a right to be reasonably heard. You have a right to be conferred with. You know, and some people get confused about what that means. If I'm a victim of sexual assault, I have the right to talk to the person that's adjudicating that crime. So, I get to have my say in court. Regardless of how they dispose of it. Whether, you know it goes to a court process or not. I, as a victim, get to say, because this person did this to me, it adversely affected my life, in this way. Like I get to say that. I get to be informed of the proceeding. Very, very simple, transparent things that are not occurring
 
Marissa:
And aren't a risk to public safety.
 
Amy:
No. And there's no force function when it doesn't happen. Okay, so they didn't do it. So what? Well, the same people that have the ability to fix it, are the same people that are not doing the things that they're supposed to that's been in federal law since the Reagan administration.
 
Marissa:
So what can what can we do to support service members going through this?
 
Amy:
Well, I think that they need to know that there is military advocacy available, but there's also other nonprofits that are also federally funded, that they can get services through. That know what their rights are. If the same owner of McDonald's is like, “Okay, well, this person I hired to be your advocate." How comfortable are you gonna feel going to that person knowing that the same guy or girl that's paying the paycheck of your rapist is also paying the paycheck of your advocate?
 
Marissa:
It just seems like a conflict of interest.
 
Amy:
It's an exact conflict of interest.
 
Marissa:
Where did the loyalty lie JAGs aren't going to go against the military, because that's who pays them, it makes sense. They're not going to bite the hand that feeds them.
 
Amy:
The legislation came up with this beautiful thing, because during Article 32 Hearings, which is basically like a grand jury indictment, they were violating victims rights all over the place. Every person that, that person has ever had any kind of sexual contact with or any kind of flaw, as it would be seen in their personality, (which don’t think it's a flaw to go to behavioral health,) but they were using those things as flaws. Like, “this person's crazy. And they have sex with everybody.” And so it was brought up to Congress, and they're like, “Okay, well, we're gonna enact this law for the National Defense Authorization Act, that deeds folks get their own lawyers,”  which are like, if you're familiar with any kind of civilian court processes, or, you know, anything that with child protections, like a guardian ad litem, right? It's, it's supposed to be just for that person. Except the person that rates that lawyer, or gives them their performance employment evaluations for promotions and what not, is the same lawyer that the JAG, the Judge Advocate General, for the commander that decides whether to prosecute their case or not. And then let's add another little addition to that. That same lawyer that is supposed to protect the rights of victims, and they do the best job that they can. There’s a saying in the military: Never take on what your rank can handle. So if you know anything about rank structure: You’ve got Captain, then you have Major, Lieutenant Colonel, Full-Bird Colonel, which not a lot of people make Full Bird Colonel ever in their career, then you have a One Star General and a Two Star General. Right? So there are five ranks in between that captain, who is that victims lawyer. You’re a Captain for about seven years. You’re a Major for about three years. Lieutenant Colonel, four to five years. Colonel three to four, depending. So, that you have rank and experience on top of it, right? So you're usually in your 50s before you become a general. So you not only have five ranks on top of me, but you have probably about, at least, 15 to 17 years of experience that I'm fighting against.
 
Marissa:
It’s not a fair battle.
 
Amy:
It's like allowing a freshman to wrestle a senior out of their weight class. 
 
Marissa:
Yeah, it just it seems like a losing battle. And that person is your superior like you can't in the military structure, you can't disrespect somebody of a higher rank than you there's an authority in your rank, like you said.
 
Amy:
Yeah, never take on what your rank and authority can't handle. They're gonna do the best that they can, but they're also not protected.
 
Marissa:
So what we need to do is create a new system, which is what your coalition is doing, right?
 
Amy:
So what the coalition is, at this juncture, is an alternative advocacy group that knows the confines of the military. So, any service member that reaches out to this coalition can rest assured that the military cannot press us.
 
Marissa:
I love that.
 
Amy:
You can't. You can have idle threats all day long,
 
Marissa:
But they can’t influence it because it's not funded by the military.
 
Amy:
We don't have any military contracts. There's a lot of rape crisis organizations that have million    dollar contracts with the Department of Defense.
 
Marissa:
So if we wanted to support this coalition, how can we do that?
 
Amy:
Well, we're at our infancy right now, I think that there's more to follow on, if people want to support it, that we can give them some contact information. And the website is in development stage right now. Right now you guys can just send us all your good love vibes. As we get it going. We're going to try to launch very soon, but we don't have like a hard date. But we can do a follow on podcast and talk more about that.
 
Marissa:
Of course, I'll update the description when we have more solid info, but I'll put the website and everything in the description. So if you want to learn more, at a later date, you're more than welcome to go to the website, send some emails, look at the amazing work that Amy's doing with this coalition and her amazing team.
 
Amy:
And if you want to also you can, you can add the Shadley Editions as part of our coalition. So, retired Major General Robert Shadley, he part of the coalition, he and his wife, Camilla. And he blogs about this stuff all the time. And he was the only commanding officer that actually conducted a proper investigation. He wrote a book about it called The Game: Unraveling Military Sex Scandals. And he busted wide open the sex scandal that was going on in Aberdeen Proving Ground and that training environment.  And he did it the right way. He says all the time, he writes in his book, “You will be more successful in the military, if you commit a sexual offense than you would be if you reported one.” And I think that speaks volumes.
 
Marissa:
That's a really strong statement.
 
Amy:
And he loves the military. And I want to be very clear, there's not any of us that don't support, love and cherish what, you know, service members do. And we don't want to do anything that would adversely affect them. But what we do want is for people to understand that it's wrong to punish somebody for reporting their sexual assault. It's wrong. And it's not okay. It's wrong to retaliate against people who stand up for victims of sexual assault and harassment. And there is no place outside of the military, that gives people a venue to say, “Hey, this happened, and it's not okay. And I need help.” And there's not any other organization that I'm aware of, that actually provides direct Client Services, advocacy, to people that are suffering because their sexual assault or harassment are being mishandled. We love Protect Our Defenders. We collaborate with them all the time. They're very legislation focused, and we support them, and we support each other. But legislation is amazing, and we support all of their efforts. But every person matters and direct services to clients matters. You know, we have many families that participate in the coalition that their children have committed suicide, because their children did not receive the support and help that they're legally allowed and had a right to have. And one child committing suicide is too much. But there are far too many young men and women killing themselves because they were so badly harassed, teased, blackmailed, after they reported their sexual assault. And there's no excuse for it. And these families that their children have, could suicide, you know, receive copies of investigations that are so highly redacted, they don't even know what on earth happened. Nowhere else in the world could people contribute to the death of your child and not be transparent with you and what people did and didn't do?
 
Marissa:
That's disgusting. Thank you so much for sharing your story and for all the amazing work you're doing to help survivors in the military and outside of the military. We'll definitely do another interview. When your coalition is out of the infancy phase.
 
Amy:
Yes, this is like a like a preview. In the preview, yeah, we'll do it. We'll do a launch party.
 
Marissa:
Perfect. I will put in the description of this podcast the date. I'll keep it up to date with information about our launch and the website and everything. Thank you so much, Amy.
 
Hey! If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching. Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!
MST Military. Military Sexual Trauma Movement. Abuse of Power. Military Abuse of Power. UCMJ Abuse of Power. Healing From Emotional Abuse. Military Sexual Trauma. Military Sexual Trauma PTSD. Military Sexual Trauma Symptoms. MST Army. MST Veterans. PTSD MST Symptoms. MST Military Sexual Trauma. MST in Military. Military Sexual Trauma PTSD Symptoms. VA Military Sexual Trauma. Military Sexual Trauma Resources

Healing From Emotional Abuse: Parenting After Abuse: With Sarah

Get Your FREE COPY of  my book, 3 Signs of A Toxic Relationship, Now...
Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to be a five year process either. Millions of other survivors around the worlds entire lives have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.
 
Marissa: Welcome back to Healing From Emotional Abuse. As you know, April is Sexual Assault Awareness Month. And every week this month, I've had an interview with a strong, amazing champion, and I'm so excited to bring on my friend Sarah today. Sarah is an incredible, strong, beautiful champion and advocate, she has overcome her own personal traumas and paid it forward by volunteering with local rape crisis centers. She's a passionate advocate and wants to give every survivor their voice back. Hi, Sarah! Thank you so much for being here today.
 
Sarah: Hi, Marissa. Thank you so much for having me.
 
Marissa: Of course, I'm so excited to talk to you. So let's get started. Sarah, would you mind telling us your story?
 
Sarah: Not at all. It's been about 20 years, we're going to round it, since my assault. And I was a going on a single mom of three kids. I was married at the time. This was an acquaintance of myself and my husband. Someone that we were friends with, both he and his wife. I was put into a position of being alone with someone that I did not trust, and did not listen to those little hairs that stood up on the back of my neck, and was alone in a car and was violently assaulted.
 
Marissa: Oh, my God.
 
Sarah: I was in the process of a divorce and being separated at the time. I had three young children at home under the age of eight or nine, all three at home, that I was responsible for and taking care of. And unfortunately, not that every assault isn't but, the assaults to a very violent turn. And I had some major medical issues and definitely needed medical attention and was unequipped, I think emotionally, to share what had happened or expose what had happened to anyone. I didn't for a while, and meaning a while during that day, I sat in the shower for many hours. Sitting in the shower, trying to figure out what to do. And ended up going to a work event and collapsing on the ground from a migraine. Just told everybody made my parents come pick me up that was outside. They picked me up brought me to a treatment center, not like the emergency room, but like an emergency treatment center that was 24 hours. I think they definitely knew and had made some suggestions to see if I wanted to disclose anything at the time. And I was very adamant in “nothing happened." And I'm just sick. And I had some, you know, medical issues at the time anyway, and was not going to admit to anything, because if I didn't admit to it, and my young brain at the time, it wasn't true, and it didn't happen.
 
And I kind of went about the next almost six years with that mindset.
 
And I worked with children with behavioral issues, and many of them came from very difficult situations. And a lot of times abuse was brought up. And I realized that I was obviously not handling the situation very well within myself and started to disclose then to some trusted people. And I worked closely with a police department and disclosed to a friend of mine, and wanted to know what to do. Because one of the things that I struggled with the most was that I did not report and that was a huge, huge struggle for me. My assault resulted several years later, in a full radical hysterectomy, due to injury, as well as, I was susceptible before but due to injury from the assault. I attempted to report five or six years later, more for my healing process. I'd gone to many therapists at that point in time and wasn't ready to be honest with myself until I had one that finally said, "Okay, cut the shit and let's talk about your trauma.” And I think it took me a while well over 10 years to really talk about what happened to me and the story and disclose everything.
 
I obviously didn't date for a very long time, being single at the time and going through all that, I needed to focus on my kids and me and being super mom and doing all those things that you needed to do. And I really thought that that was what was going to heal me. And it didn't, it blew up in my face, which I think happens, and you know, you kind of move on, and I think I'm the healthiest I've ever been emotionally with dealing with the trauma.
 
Marissa: Thank you so much for sharing all of that. That's so heart-wrenching, you know, going through that and just the person that you are now and the person you've become, in spite of that, and after that it's so eye opening, and I'm so proud of you.
 
Sarah: Thank you. 
 
Marissa: Of course. You said you threw yourself in parenting and being super mom. Did that give you any sort of relief? Or how did the kids handle it? I know that your kids still don't know.
 
Sarah: My daughter is aware. My sons are not. Okay, my now husband is well aware. I think in my situation. One of the things that I didn't mention was the relationship that we had with my rapist. I felt very, very betrayed by my husband at the time for putting me in a known, risky situation. And I take full ownership of putting myself in that situation. But I also have a lot of anxiety and anger towards him for that and I've since, I think, let go of that. But I couldn't I guess at the time, I couldn't emotionally focus on anything but my kids. I kind of just tried my best to put it out of my mind. And I'm very thankful for having my kids there, because it's I think the only way I really survived it.
 
Marissa: That's beautiful. How did it feel when you finally started talking about it? Like did it give you a sense of relief? Or was it terrifying?
 
Sarah: Yes, is the answer to that question. I think I was so overwhelmed with all different emotions, fear and relief and anger and going through kind of a mourning period of trying to figure out who I was. And I was doing that anyway, with going through a divorce and going from being someone's daughter, to someone's wife to someone's mother to never really finding who I was. I think all of that although was a good distraction, there were still things that were difficult to disclose and difficult to deal with at the time. And sometimes even now, I mean, there's things that still trigger. You just can't turn those off. You can recognize them, but you can't turn them off. And as hard as you try to do that there's always going to be things and I think I feel more guilty now when some of those come up. Because something will remind me of that person and it's not the other person's fault. This poor stranger who's walking down you know, the, the hall in the mall is not at fault for wearing the cologne he’s wearing, and that has acted for a trigger for me.
 
Marissa: That's really, really common that your sense of smell is directly linked to your long term memory. So it'll be the most likely to trigger somebody or to bring back a memory. So I've actually spoken to a lot of people that have said the smell of cologne will trigger them because a certain cologne reminds them of someone.
 
Sarah: And I think for me the confusion lied that, I didn't realize what it was that was triggering me and didn't realize that I was being triggered. I just felt panicked. And trying to deal with those feelings and recognize them to take a breath and say, “Okay, this is what it is, you know, you're not there, you're not in it. Get away from it.” Is so important for me now. And they happen fewer and farther between and I think when I was dealing with it, one of my fears of dealing with it and facing it, believe it or not, was forgetting details.
 
Marissa: Interesting,
 
Sarah: Which coming from the background that I come from I find really interesting. I spent all these years trying to forget and then was fearful of forgetting because then they weren't going to have to take the responsibility of knowing that it happened if I forgot.
 
Marissa: What do you mean?
 
Sarah: In my head, I, and I remember saying this to my awesome therapist that finally did help bring this out. I was afraid that I would forget dates or details or times. And that would like, somehow let him off the hook. Okay, in my, in my brain, let him off the hook, like it was okay, because if I don't remember it, then it's okay. Oh, they're so into thought process.
 
Marissa: Okay, that's so interesting. So at the end of the day, like you were focusing on making sure he was held accountable without realizing it was kind of at your psyches expense.
 
Sarah: Exactly, and I think that was part of my I struggled and struggled and struggled with the guilt of not reporting, and for so long and was not treated very well, obviously, five or six years later, when I did try to report it was it was not received very well. And I did it more for me and my therapy and therapeutic purposes. And it kind of blew up in my face. But I was glad that I did it. Now I can say I was glad that I did that. And I know he was held accountable for something else in the future. And that gives me I think, a little bit of peace of mind, knowing that someone else had the courage to do what I couldn't do at the time.
 
Marissa: And that's okay. I hope you don't beat yourself up about that, because you only about 5% of cases are actually reported.
 
Sarah: Right, I'm getting better. I think that I'm forgiving myself a little bit in the sense that my focus had to be my children. And I don't think I could have done both.
 
Marissa: It would have been a lot to handle three kids as a single mom, and oh, you know, all the emotions that spring up I was going through a divorce,
 
Sarah: I was going through medical issues that were exacerbated by the assault, and it was just my life was crumbling down. You know, as far as I was concerned, and I just needed to keep my head above water.
 
Marissa: Exactly, you got to do what you have to do to keep yourself safe and survive.
 
Sarah: And that's what I did. And you can't go back. But you can can't change the future, but you can certainly change the ending. And that's what I'm trying to do. And I think it enables me to support other survivors and warriors to do what they feel is right for them in their heart because there is no right or wrong answer. And you can't live with those regrets in your, in your heart or in your head.
 
Marissa: I love that. That's a really strong statement. You can't survive with those thoughts floating around you. You know you have to heal in order to get yourself sound and stable and take care of yourself. So speaking about healing, what did you do that really helped you heal? You went to therapy and found a therapist that you love.
 
Sarah: I found a therapist that has since retired. How dare he?! And was very surprised that the therapist that I did find that helped me tremendously was a man. I thought oh, how is this ever going to work? But he was fabulous and just really delve in and was patient yet firm with getting me to deal with the things I needed to deal with. I was a big journaler always have been always wrote things always wrote stories always wrote poetry I always wrote, began writing letters that I never send.
 
Marissa: That's my favorite thing to tell people to do.
 
Sarah: Yep, began writing letters that I never send begun. Alternate things to get me grounded when necessary. I had a great support system that I didn't always lean on with my husband now, because sometimes that's hard. And that's no fault of his that those were my issues. And I think for me, the journaling and the therapy, for sure, was huge. And allowing myself to move forward and deal with the fact that you can you can't go back to the past and you can't change the past. And one of the things that I found the most interesting that the therapist ever told me was, I once went and you know, we all deal with stuff on a daily basis. And you know, we have a blended family now, which I adore and we have struggles. You know, their life is a struggle. It's a beautiful struggle, hopefully most of the time, but it can be a struggle. And I remember having a challenging issue, I think medically and said, You know what, I don't understand. I've been through all this stuff in my past and I have really suffered and really, you know, made great strides to move forward in the future, and now I'm being knocked down again. And he kind of said to me what gives you the right, what makes you think you have the right to think that the world stops for you? And I thought, well, that was mean you're supposed to be on my side.
But it resonated with me and it was something that kind of helped me ground myself and say, okay, you're not always what the world revolves around. And just because you've struggled in the past doesn't make you immune from struggling in the future, and use the struggles to make you stronger, not knock you down.
 
Marissa: Yeah, I have a friend who just put out a book about how failures, the beginning of your success. And I think that's so interesting. And I think it kind of connects here where everything that happens, yeah, everything that happens in your life is, is a test. And it's either going to make you sink or swim. And the point is to make you swim, to give you that power, and to make you stronger, and give you the strength and courage to get better, you know, to keep pushing and keep swimming.
 
Sarah: Absolutely. And I never bought into that, especially after this happened, they never bought that everything happens for a reason, because there isn't a reason for this to happen. But you have to make the best of what you have. And you have to move forward, there aren't choices in that. You need to move forward, and you need to get stronger. And now being a parent of adult children, I always parented with a thought in mind, you don't raise children, you raise adults. I have daughters, and I look at how I would want them to react and you know, sometimes I've learned as a parent also that your kids don't necessarily learn from your mistakes, they have to learn from their own. But you have to lead by example. And I may not have done what I felt was the right thing in the long run at the time, but I had to do what was right for me in hopes that they see the strength that I had to get to where I am now.
 
Marissa: If you're comfortable answering this question, I'm curious, how did you tell your daughters, what did you say to them, because they're older, now they're in their 20s, or 30s.
 
Sarah: They're in their 20s, I told so we have a blended family. So my daughter, I consider them online. So I do have a daughter and a stepdaughter, the only one of our children, that nose is my daughter, I actually ended up sharing with her when I was doing my training for becoming an advocate. And she was going to come with me, we were going out of town for this training session for a week. And she was going to come with me and I felt that I didn't want it to come out any other way other than from my mouth. And she had also had recently at the time, and this was quite a long time ago, had recently come out of an abusive-type relationship in college. And we were getting her on the road to health again, both physically and emotionally. And I felt that I owed it to her to be honest with her. It was a very quick but difficult conversation to have. There are many details she does not know and I don't feel that it's necessary for her to know. She's never really asked, but as always been very thankful of me for sharing.
 
Marissa: Thank you for sharing that I feel like a lot of people struggle with not knowing how to tell their kids. I think it's really important that that they do my parents Well, my mom shared with me a an abusive situation that she had when she was younger, but not till after I had already experienced mine.
 
Sarah: I had the same experience actually.
 
Marissa: Right. And as helpful as it is after the fact like, Okay, I'm not alone. And you do understand where I'm coming from thinking back me probably maybe because like you said, you know, sometimes kids have to experience things for themselves to truly learn. And this probably would have been one of them anyways, but maybe I could have been better equipped to handle mine. Or maybe I would have shared more with her about it, had I known that she would have understood what I was going through? So I don't know, I just don't think there's any specific system. I think that it's important that we share though.
 
Sarah: I think I was glad that I shared. I didn't share with you mentioned your mom, I didn't share with my mom until many years later when I ended up having my hysterectomy. She was in the office with me with my doctor. And the question came out. I hadn't shared really much publicly, and it was basically in the parking lot of the hospital.
 
Marissa: Oh my god.
 
Sarah: And I'm glad that it did come out. It was that was definitely a relief feeling. But it was obviously not what I had anticipated. That being or looking like at the time and very supportive and was wonderful through it. But wasn't I mean, I don't think it was until recently maybe within the last couple years that my sister even knew, because at this point, it's part of my story. It's not who I am.
 
Marissa: See, I like that and it doesn't define us. I find that generally our families are the last people we tell because we want to protect them. Or we're afraid of their reaction or, I mean a myriad of reasons for the same reason we don't tell certain people, but I only told my mom because I started writing Breaking Through the Silence: The Journey to Surviving Sexual Assault. And technically, I've still never told my dad, but I mean, he owns my book. So I'm sure he knows. He's a smart man, he knows what I do for a living. So I think that sharing the story is good. I think it's definitely scary at first.
 
Sarah: I spoke at an event for an Advocacy Center. And I think that's when my mom disclosed fully to my dad. I think he knew something went on, I don't think he knew stuff and my dad is my father's 84 years old. So he's not and wasn't at the time, but still was older and you know, very doesn't want to hear that stuff. And my mom was very adamant in telling him because they were going to be at this event. It was a fundraising event, and I was speaking in a way I, you might want to give him a heads up. So he's not shell shocked when I say what I have to say. So it's weird, and we never really discussed it. I've discussed a little bit with my mom, and you know, our relationship is, we have a good relationship. I'm very cautious protective of my feelings in our relationship, I think so. It's not something that, you know, we sit around and discuss every day, but it's not something I you know, I have adult sons that, I don't know, if I will ever have that conversation. I'm just not sure
 
Marissa: And that's okay. It's all a comfort thing. I'm in the mindset of the more we talk about it, the more power we take away from abuser, I say, you know,
 
Sarah: I definitely agree. And I think that I hopefully did not raise dumb children. And I'm sure that they realized that there's something there. But I am just not comfortable with it. At this point, you know, I don't want to add to their stress of their daily lives, and it's not something that they need to worry about or think about,
 
Marissa: Right. And you're okay, you know, you you're a solid, stable person, it's not like you are wishy washy or all over the place, or emotionally unstable, like, you're okay. And they don't have to worry about you,.
 
Sarah: Right. I think even when I was going through the hardest times with it, when I wasn't dealing with it, and it was kind of coming to bite me in the ass, so to speak, I always was able to maintain, and felt that I needed to maintain that, “I'm okay, you're okay, and everything is fine,” stability for them, because they didn't have that anywhere else. And I always wanted to be that soft place to fall for my kids. And I needed to make sure that even though there were times that I don't think I really was okay, that I was okay enough to handle it on my own and on my own terms.
 
Marissa: You're amazing. Thank you for all the work
 
Sarah: You do what you got to do.
 
Marissa: That's true. I mean, you're like Superwoman, you like jumped into action when you needed to, and you were that soft place to land for them. And they probably didn't know any of the details of what was going on, which is an extremely strong attribute. And I hope you pat yourself on the back. Of course. What advice would you give to survivors listening?
 
Sarah: That's a question that has been asked so many times through advocacy as well. Number one, realize it's not your fault, which everybody tells you and it's a tough thing to swallow when you're in it in the moment, because I will tell you I didn't believe that nobody else would believe it. Nobody else believes that when you tell them that, but it's not. And it's allow yourself to heal allow yourself to grieve because I think for myself, I went through a grieving process. Because although it doesn't define who we are, it does take a piece of you away and I think that I was grieving that loss. It was just like all this Coronavirus stuff is going on now. And this is new territory for everybody in the world that was very new territory for my world. I didn't expect it. I didn't know it. Nobody gives you a heads up, hey, this is what's going to happen. And it turns your world upside down. But know in your heart that it will get easier. It doesn't go away. But you learn different methods to incorporate that into a new norm. And rely on the people that are there to help you. Lean on people as much as you can when you are ready to talk. Talk. There's advocacy centers out there, there's strangers, there's online things and if you feel you have nobody write it in a book, put it down, you know, not necessarily in a published book, but write it down. And if you are afraid somebody is going to find it, burn it. But get those feelings out. Get those thoughts out. Put them down on paper, talk to yourself in the mirror, scream into a pillow. Get those feelings out. Don't bottle it up inside you.
 
Marissa: Thank you so much. I love that. And I really like the comparison to Coronavirus. In my head and it's so true. Nobody knows. I don't know what to do. Everyone's lost every new use and in crisis mode and that's exactly how you feel when you're surviving. So that was really awesome.
 
Sarah: You go into that, like you said, into crisis mode, you go into that protective. Now what do I do, because I don't know what to do. So now what, so you just have to take it minute by minute, sometimes not even day by day and just kind of move forward with how the new norm is going to work itself through,
 
Marissa: Exactly got to take care of the basic necessities first. And then when everything is stable, it's like the hierarchy of needs, you know? When your shelter and necessities are stabilized, then you can move on to the next one and the next one, next one. And then you can heal and rebuild yourself.
 
Sarah: And find a place for you, internally and externally that you can go and it's just your quiet retreat, whether it be a small little place in an office, a closet, a bedroom, make that place your comfort zone, make that place your spot where you can go and just breathe when you need to
 
Marissa: I love it. Thank you so much, Sarah, for being here today and for discussing all of these actually, like very insightful, great topics. And I really appreciate everything that you said and your willingness to share and all the advocacy and beautiful work that you do with me, in my businesses in my nonprofit and in the community. You're amazing and you're so strong and I am so inspired by you every single day.
 
Sarah: Well, thank you for all the work that you do. And thank you for sharing it all with me and allowing me to be a part of it.
 
 
Hey! If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching.  Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!
 
parenting after abuse. single parenting. single parent family. being a single mom. single mothers by choice. being a single mother. being a single parent. surviving sexual assault. becoming a single mom after divorce. how to be a good single mother. raising kids after abuse. raising kids after abuse help. 

Healing From Emotional Abuse: Overcoming Childhood Abuse: With Kendra

Get Your FREE COPY of  my book, 3 Signs of A Toxic Relationship, Now...
Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to be a five year process either. Millions of other survivors around the worlds entire lives have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.
 
Marissa: Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Healing From Emotional Abuse. I just wanted to remind everyone that April is Sexual Assault Awareness Month and to be aware of what's happening in your community. Your local rape crisis center should be holding several events, including a Denim Day and a Walk A Mile In Her Shoes and various other really fun events. Even local colleges will have some. Look into them. They're a lot of fun to partake. There's just a ton of fun activities and events to do around town to support your community and support your local survivors and be involved. As you know, for Sexual Assault Awareness Month. I'm doing live interviews with survivors every week. Today we have my amazing friend Kendra, she is a phenomenal champion. She is so strong and she's overcome some really horrific events in her life. And I'm so honored to have her on here. So welcome Kendra.
 
Kendra: I was I think 11 years old. So, I was in the fifth grade. And I had met a friend she was new to our school new to my class, and we got along really well. And we would walk home from school every day together. And that quickly turned into she would come to my house after school; I would go to her house after school. And we spent pretty much all of our time together when we weren't in school, or doing other like family related things. And we kind of had been building up building up building up. And finally, we decided like, oh, let's have a sleepover. So of course, like her parents cleared it. My mom cleared it and it was like the one friend who parents my mom had never met before. So, she was a little bit hesitant, but it was literally a block over from the house. She'd met the girl, she felt very comfortable. She knew that if anything happened, it was within walking distance at home, maybe two to three minutes. So, she okayed it and we had just like a normal night. What girls do. We ate Top Ramen, we watched Halloween. And we went to bed and we were sleeping.
 
And I woke up I have no idea what time it was. I woke up because I kept feeling something tickling my leg. That made me very uncomfortable and I kept thinking there was like a bug on me or something. And I kept kind of just brushing my leg and swatting it away. And I also noticed it was really, really cold. And I had my back turned, I guess towards like the outside of the bed. And I woke up and opened my eyes, I could see the window was open and I could see that the TV was on, which wasn't abnormal to me. We'd fallen asleep watching movies, the window being open was a little bit weird. And I remember thinking that. I rolled over and there was nobody there. So again, I thought, okay, I don't know what's going on. I just kept brushing my leg And I fell back asleep. And I don't know how much time had passed But I woke up again. Because from the waist down, I didn't have clothes on any more. My shorts and my underwear had been pulled completely down And I kind of sat there, my eyes barely open. And I just remember, I don't know what was being played on TV. But I remember the background being really blue in the whole room was illuminated in blue. I opened my eyes and there was a man sitting on the edge of the bed. And he was just running his hands up and down my legs. He had lifted my shirt up. And immediately I remember thinking, I'm in trouble. Okay, I can't do anything. I was so terrified in that moment to confront this man. I didn't know who he was. I didn't know what was going on. And so, I tried to play it off. As best as I could as an 11-year-old girl, of like rubbing my face like I was kind of waking up and like, pull my shirt down and try to pull the covers up. And also try to scoot a little bit further into the bed and close to my friend. And I was successful in doing so. I kind of got away from this man and he got up and he left the room. I can only presume to go to the bathroom. And I pulled up my shorts quickly and I shook my friend and I just was trying so hard to wake her up.  I kept saying,  “There's somebody in your room, there's somebody in your room, there's a man in house, I don't know what to do.”
And she was out cold she did not wake up. And I could hear him coming back in and so I just wrapped myself up in the covers and pushed myself as close to her as possible and he continued to sit on the edge of the bed and try to touch me through the covers. But I just kind of kept tossing and turning. Didn't go back to sleep for the rest of that night. No idea what this man looked like. I've no idea who he was. The next morning I mentioned to my friend when she woke up, I said, “Hey, there was somebody in your room last night, you know anything?” She said, no. I woke up a few times there was nobody in here. “Like no, there was, you know, watching something on TV.” And I remember being really uncomfortable and just packing my little bag as quick as I could and getting out. And I got home and went to an event just like a family event. And I told my cousin. I remember just feeling really gross and dirty and scared. And I just told her, I said, I don't know what happened like he took my clothes off. I don't, I don't know. And she kept telling me, Kendra, you have to tell somebody. I was like, I can't help but I'll be in trouble. You know, like, I was wearing shorts. And I'm blaming myself at 11 years old for wearing pajama shorts to bed. And I, you know, immediately thought to myself, if I had worn pants, or if I've had socks on with this wouldn't have happened. I don't know why my brain was wired that way at such a young age. But it was. And the entire day I kept telling my cousin No, it's okay. It's okay. And then my cousin said no chance. I said, No, I made it up. I made it up. Nothing happened, nothing happened. Because I was afraid, I thought I would be the one in trouble. Like, I was the one who chose asleep over. I was the one who also let it happen. I didn't confront him. And so, in my mind, I thought, I'm going to be looked at like you let it happen, like this is your fault. So, several hours of convincing went by, and my cousin finally said, if you don't tell your mom, I will. I said, Okay, so she walked upstairs with me. I told my mom. And from there, it's kind of a blur. I don't really remember all the details. I remember the cops being called, I had to disclose everything that happened. I remember riding in the back of the police car to show them the house because I didn't know her address. And I don't know what happened if they ever found out who it was. I do remember my mom mentioning a few months later that, you know, she had stayed in contact with the officer that we reported it with, just kind of follow up. And they had mentioned they have a suspicion about who it was, like some family member in the house. But nothing was confirmed and then nobody in the family had come forward. They all said that, that member of the family was not living there. They hadn't seen him in a while and I think the worst part for me was I went back to school that Monday, and she knew what happened and she didn't look at me. She wouldn't talk to me. Her birthday party was a few weeks later, and of course, I wasn't allowed to go. She kind of made it known to like all of you girls in our class, like, Oh, yeah, she made up some rumor about my family. And it wasn't until the week after her birthday party. And I just remember my little heart broke for her. I was walking home from school and she ran up behind me and she got my attention and she was crying. She said I'm so sorry, I didn't believe you.
 
So, it happened to me that night at my party. And I just remember, like, I have chills now. Like recounting that. Several years later, I think I was in junior high. She actually attended my junior high and we were in a class together. And of course, I approached her like, Hey, you know, do you remember me? And she's like, No, I don't remember you. And she denied ever knowing me. She denied ever being friends with me. And I was kind of like, that was kind of it for me. It's like, okay, either, you've gone through something far more traumatic, and you’ve really blocked it all out and you truly don't remember, or you're embarrassed or something else has happened and you don't want to associate with me and that's fine. So, here's where we just kind of cut all ties and never saw her again.
 
Marissa: I'm so sorry. That happened to you. Oh my God, that's such a painful story. I hate it. I'm not going to lie.
 
Kendra: It couldn't. And I always think to right, it could be worse, it could be worse. And I'm grateful it didn't go further. And I'm grateful that whatever he had planned if he had anything else planned, he stopped. But yeah, it's like I wouldn't wish that on anybody in any situation,
 
Marissa: Right? That's so scary. You're in a place you don't know. It's a human being you don't know and have never seen and nobody believes you. And everyone's trying to convince you that your will not your family. But can you know, your friend is trying to convince you it wasn't true and their family was protecting, that's horrible. And for an 11-year-old to already be pretty much conditioned to believe that it's their fault, no matter what it speaks so, so loud about our society and how we conditioned people. Thank you so much for sharing that.
 
Kendra: I think what's crazy to me too, is it didn't come up until several years later in therapy for something completely unrelated. You know, talking about past trauma and things like that. I was asked to tell my story. And halfway through my story I said, and it's not like the pajama shorts were short, like, like they were long. And you know, my therapist said no, don’t. Like don't make that excuse. It doesn't matter what you were wearing. And I think that's like I don't know; maybe other people feel this way maybe they don't. But I think that's the thing that's so tricky about trauma is no matter how much healing you do and what processing you go through, there's always kind of those little things that just slip out of if I had done this or that that underlying tone of guilt and shame that just come along with it.
 
Marissa: I think you're totally right. They don't go away. It's never really addressed. You know, we say, oh, it wasn't your fault, doesn't matter what you were wearing. But there's no healing with that, you know, I can think of 1000 reasons why my assault would have been my fault. But not really, because I had no control over the situation. Like you did. And I think that a lot of people agree with us that it's, all about how we condition it. And we ignore the little things when we're trying to heal the big picture, those little things are still seeds that are still planted, right? What did you do? Because you are you seem at least very well adjusted and stable. You know, I don't know what happens in your head. But, you know, what did you do to heal from it? Like, was there anything that you tried that worked really well, for you?
 
Kendra: I think what was hard is, at 11 years old, I didn't understand the impact that it had on my day-to-day life, or what it was going to do down the line for me. I was very fortunate in the sense that I had a supportive family who, you know, immediately addressed the situation. My mom offered therapy or different outlets like that, because she knew that she couldn't be the one to do all my healing. And my little 11-year-old mind, I was like, No, I don't, need that I think I'm fine. You know, I want to get back to my normal life. I wanted to be able to sleep overs again. I think that, the trauma aside, my social life and my social class at a really critical point in my life (I was getting ready to be out of elementary school and get into junior high with a new friend group), that was being disrupted in a very bold way. And so, I didn't do anything for several years. And it really wasn't until seven or eight years later, when I started to address, “Oh, I'm uncomfortable around them. So uncomfortable.” Or if somebody brushes my thigh, like, I'm triggered, and I just coil up. And I never associated the two together, I just thought, Oh, I'm just shy. And I'm introverted. And I just rather not confront people. And so that's kind of when I was, I was open about it. And I found some other people who had gone through something similar. And I then went to therapy for, like I said, different trauma and a lot of things started to come up. Like, I'm afraid of men, I feel like I have no power like that stuff started to come up. And just figuring out different avenues, things like writing, and we did a lot of you know, kind of sort of like telling a different story to myself using objects and getting, you know, an unbiased third party's view on that to kind of help really frame everything differently for me. And then it also came up I think I allowed not necessarily abuse but a lot, a lot of really inappropriate behavior in my teenage years that I thought, Oh, I had a friend that kept asking, “Just lift your shirt up just flashed me.” And I was really uncomfortable and really triggered by that and I didn't know why I couldn't explain it and so, I did it. And as I was doing it, I was crying. He's like, what's wrong? What's wrong, I was like, I don't know, like, I'm uncomfortable, I'm really uncomfortable. So, I think I didn't have the wherewithal to stop a lot of that In my teenage years. I think therapy was a big outlet, I would say when I was 17-18. And over the last few years, just kind of going back through that and talking through trust issues and trauma and why I view things the way that I view them. And then also never putting myself in a position where I feel like I could be compromised. If I'm ever in a position I'm uncomfortable around somebody I make sure somebody else knows. And I get out of there as quickly as possible. And I don't stand for anybody treating me a certain way or telling you to do something or asking me to do something where I'm uncomfortable. I kind of identify those triggers when they bubble up and I just I get out of a situation as quickly as possible.
 
Marissa: That's awesome. And that's really smart. Being situationally aware is very underrated. It's never ever, ever the survivor's fault in any situation ever. But there are very good ways to get yourself out of compromising situations just by being situationally aware. And I love that you always let somebody know when you're uncomfortable and get out as soon as possible. A lot of people, at least from what I've learned will just stay silent because they don't want to make anyone else feel uncomfortable, or burden anyone and they don't want to be known as like “that guy.” So, it's so much better that you have a like a routine and like a system and you know, your worth and you know where you stand and you get yourself out of it to keep yourself safe. That's amazing. I want to go back to that object thing you were talking about was I've never heard of that. And I'm so curious. What is it?
 
Kendra: So, we it was like just a really big sandbox. And she basically sat me down and I had objects at my disposal and they were small things like little figurines, houses, shapes that I could use. I just had the sand and I was able to play with the sand, she said just had to get it to where you want it to start. Whether it's bumpy, you want to spell something in it, you want to completely flat? However you feel good with the sand. Then think through a situation in your life, or think through and in this situation, part of it was because I was suffering trauma at being from being robbed at gunpoint by a male. And so that's for me was like a really prevalent thing, right? Like, I'm very uncomfortable around males. And I feel like, like, I don't have power in a lot of those situations. So that's kind of what we were playing out. So, she wanted me to get figurines and kind of highlight, okay, so like, in any situation where you're uncomfortable, what is the male use an object to describe the male use an object to describe you. And it became very apparent, because I think it was like a big GI Joe style figurine that I put in the sandbox for a male. And I picked the smallest, most fragile, infant looking figurine for me. And I positioned us very closely. And of course, I'm doing a lot of that subconsciously. I've got a safety net, you know, maybe a few inches away from me, but I'm closer to this male that has all of the power. And just a lot of dark shapes and a lot of dark fingers behind him. Just kind of talking about being fearful and of course, as I'm doing this, I'm just thinking, right, this is how I feel in these situations. And she was able to really help me break it down and think through. Okay, so if you're in a situation you feel this way, what do you have in your back pocket? What tools can you pull, and if you're looking at these figurines, what could be helpful for you. And that's where some of the things like telling somebody, I'm uncomfortable, finding your voice, like not being afraid. And now, it's always better to be safe than sorry. And if you're in a situation where you're uncomfortable, nobody's going to care about you, but you So stand up scream, make as much noise as possible and at the end of the day, you probably won't regret it. And so that's where I learned a lot of those things is okay, you know, like, it's not just me, if I'm in these situations, I'm not by myself, I'm not weak, and quiet. I can, stand up and I can move and I can make noise, I can get other people involved, and I can pull myself back into my safety bubble at any point. And that was extremely, extremely enlightening for me.
 
Marissa: That's amazing. I love that that you said nobody else is going to protect you. But you are nobody else is going to care. But you. So, you do you need to be your biggest advocate and your biggest ally. And who cares if you scream and piss people off and you know, look silly for a second. You're keeping yourself safe. And that's the most important thing. Awesome, thank you so much. What advice would you have? Or would you give to little girls that might be in that situation that you were in?
 
Kendra: One, always be the person that that you need to be your own advocate. And I know that that's hard when you're young, but also find a trusted source and tell a trusted source. And I think it's so much easier hindsight is 20-20. I remember like sitting on my bedroom floor and playing a game with my cousin and her like basically threatening me, right? Like, you don't tell somebody I will and thank God I had her in my life. Because if I didn't, I don't know that I would have come forward ever. And this has been, you know, nearly 20 years. So, find somebody, especially if you're young, if it's an adult, great. But if it's not like somebody who's going to help fight for you, and don't be afraid of coming forward. And I know that that's hard. And I know, I think now it doesn't matter, you know, I'm 30, I still sometimes feel that same way. Like, oh, I don't want to come forward because it's embarrassing, or nothing's going to come of it and in my situation, nothing did come out I couldn't find anybody. I don't know what happened to my abuser. But I know that my voice may have at some point stopped it from happening to somebody else. And so, remember that, you know, if you're in a situation, you're fighting for yourself, you're also fighting for everybody else that’s going through it. And we're a lot louder as a crowd than we are as a single individual. So, don't be afraid to step up and know that there is a community out there that does support you. And you won't face that judgment and that shame and that guilt. You can shut that whenever you're ready to let go of it.
 
Marissa: Thank you so much. That's all so helpful. Thank you so much for sharing your story and for being here and advocating for survivors everywhere. You're phenomenal.
 
Kendra: Thank you.
 
Marissa: And I'm so honored that you’re my friend. Kendra, thank you so much for being here and for sharing your story with us. You have such an amazing outlook and such phenomenal, helpful advice. I can't thank you enough for being here. Just a reminder to everybody listening to get involved in your community for Sexual Assault Awareness Month and to support survivors. We want everybody to live a brave, full and peaceful life. Thank you so much for listening and I'll talk to you next week.
Hey! If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching.  Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!
good touch bad touch. good touch and bad touch. bad touch and good touch. good and bad touch. good touch and bad touch meaning. good touch bad touch social story. good couch bad touch story. good bad touch. good touch and bad touch for kids. good touch bad touch information. teaching good touch bad touch. good touch bad touch for children.

Healing From Emotional Abuse: Abusive Relationships In High School: With Liz

Get Your FREE COPY of  my book, 3 Signs of A Toxic Relationship, Now...
Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to be a five year process either. Millions of other survivors around the worlds entire lives have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.
 
Marissa: Welcome back to Healing From Emotional Abuse. In honor of Sexual Assault Awareness Month for April. Like I said, last week, we are going to be doing interviews with real survivors talking about their stories and how they healed every Wednesday this month. Today we have with us my amazing friend, Liz. It is so awesome to be able to see you and talk to you in our messy buns and sweaters because we are self-quarantined for Coronavirus.
 
Liz: Hey!
 
Marissa: I haven’t brushed my hair in two days. Liz was born and raised in Long Branch New Jersey. She graduated with a BA in communications. She says she's very anxious about sharing her story for the first time. But after years of dedication to her healing and recovering. She wants to share her story as a way of promoting survivors to speak up about their abuse. She has a boyfriend and he has been a huge supporter of her and everything that she has been through and everything she's doing. So I want to welcome you to breaking through our silence. How are you today?
 
Liz: Thank you so much. I'm well, you know, like you said quarantined right now telecommuting for work. So, um, it's definitely interesting, but I'm good. Thank you.
 
Marissa: All right, awesome. So let's just get into it, if you don't mind sharing with us your story and a little bit about what you went through?
 
Liz: Yeah. So um, it's kind of a weird story. Still, to this day, still doesn't make a lot of sense. Actually, I owe a lot of things to you and your books in your podcast has really been helpful on the way you analyze things and explain things in the way sometimes people react or do things. It's helped make a lot of sense of some of the things I went through. And it's helped me be able to sit down and really find the right words and actually be able to form a timeline because the mess I went through with this weird friend group I was involved with just didn't make any sense for so long. And I've finally now has sat down and made a timeline where I can say, Okay, this is when this happened. And then this is when everything really did start going downhill.
 
Marissa: So tell us a little bit about it.
 
Liz: So um, we're all like high school friends. It's just so weird. Like, I can't even imagine this is something I went through. Like, this isn't anything I would even be able to like, you know, I just can't believe it's still to this day. But anyway, so what happened was, we were the four of us were all friends. And, you know, high school drama of who's taking who to prom and everything. And there was me, Jeff, Zack, and Dan, and really simple friend group. There was like a few other people that were like, in and around the friend group. But there was like the four of us that were mainly involved in the situation. So actually, and it's really funny, because the first I always had this crush on Dan. Like, basically from the time he and I became friends. And for years after that, like I just always had a crush on him and junior year because we met in freshman year. So junior year, is our first prom. And Zack had actually asked me to it but I wanted to go with Dan so I told him I messaged him, he Facebook messaged me to ask me to prom. And I Facebook messaged him back saying, you know, I'm really sorry, but I've actually been waiting for Dan to ask me and I guess they must have talked. Dan told me that they and said that he wanted to go to prom with me. And I was of course just as any other girl would be like, over the moon happy. The boy that I want to go to prom with asked me to go this is amazing. It was it was just great. We went to prom together we started dating. I don't even remember how we dated, I just remember hanging out a lot. Watching him play sports or just hanging out with him at his house or driving around because he had a car a little bit before me, it was just like those really sweet, cute little like, fun thing. There wasn't any pressure to it. It was just something we were kind of doing like we were boyfriend girlfriend just having fun. Really light and carefree. Just really simple. The mess started to occur the summer going into senior year when them and a few other people kind of involved in our friend group went on this trip, and I didn't go on the trip because of finances. You know, my family doesn't have as much money as many other families in those towns surrounding Long Branch. So I didn't go I was like the only person in the whole friend group who didn't go. When they got back. Things were really weird. Like I said, before they left Dan and I were over the moon, super cool, happy, having a good time, whatever. And when they got back, I didn't hear from him at all. Like, he just wasn't texting me back or calling me at all. And I was so confused and Zach didn't seem to know what was going on. But Jeff seemed to have magically all these answers. He said, “Oh, while we while we were on the trip, Dan was hanging out with this other girl and really falling for this other girl and he doesn't want to, see you anymore or talk to you anymore. He just wants you to stop contacting him.” And because he’s my friend. I trusted him. So I was like, yeah, cool. Okay, I mean, not cool. But, you know, I'll stop contacting him. Little did I know? And I didn't find this out until a year later, he was doing the same thing to Dan. He was telling him that I didn't want to talk to him, even though I don't know where the miscommunication was, because I was the one texting and calling. That's the background information. Going into senior year was like a real mess. Actually, that was also when I had met my current boyfriend that I'm with now who I love tremendously and we have such a wonderful life now. But at the time, my friend Jeff like was just so like, involved in my life, because he was such a close friend. He was so involved in my life. I just trusted him so innately. Whenever he told me like not to talk to someone or not to do something, or vice versa, I would just do it because I trusted him. So he even convinced me to stop talking to my boyfriend that I'm with now. And it's so weird to think back on the horrible things he said to me and think how like, I just trusted it. He was like, you know, I don't really think this guy is a good guy. He doesn't sound like he really wants you for the right weight reasons. You probably wouldn't want to keep talking with him. It was just one of the things where I was just like, Okay, I guess it makes sense. It was long distance. I guess it makes sense. So I stopped talking to him to which really upset me because I didn't know how to stop talking to him. I didn't know how to tell this person that I really didn't know for that long that I didn't think he was really into me. So, I just kind of ghosted him. And it definitely hurt me as much as it hurt him because even all these years later, or even after him and I got back together, it's something that still haunts me. And something he and I still talk about every now and then because, you know, I just love him so much. He's definitely someone who I think I'm going to be spending the rest of my life with. And to know that I did that to this man that I love so much because of this guy that just had so much control over me. I was just so naive, I can't even believe that I allowed that to happen. I allowed him to control so much of my life, even the people I spoke with and dated.
 
So about a couple months after that, maybe not even that long, it might have been like a month and a half or so he made a move on me. He was like asking to hang out with me all the time, which I did. Because you know, I was just like, whatever, like, we'll hang out. I really just didn't think anything of it. And then before I knew it, he had kissed me. And we had like, started dating and everyone at school knew about it. Like we were just all of a sudden boyfriend-girlfriend, and it happens so fast. I was like, Okay, I guess this is happening. And I just so passively allowed these things to happen. I allowed him to talk me out of talking to people allowed him to talk me out of hanging out with people. And it just really quickly kept declining from there. I lost friends because as our relationship progressed, he would tell me I couldn't do this, or I couldn't do that meaning like, he wanted me to come straight to his house every single day after school. So as soon as school let out, I was to go right to his house, and I was to stay there for dinner. I had dinner with him and his family every single night for like, almost the entire senior year of high school. Because that's how long this relationship ended up going on for. He would even like tell me like, you know, if it was time for me to go home, like if my dad was texting me like, you know, it's time to come home, he would give me such a hard time and it was causing problems with me and my family, obviously, as well. It caused me to have this big fight with my mom and it kind of caused me to have this big fight with my dad and my step mom. And it was just this big, like, snowball going down this hill that was just growing and growing. And I didn't know how to stop it. It was just messing in every aspect of my life. But yeah, so that's like the meatiest part of the story is like all the things he ended up doing. It even got to a point where he had like spies. There was this one kid that lived next door to a friend of mine and I just went over to hang out with this friend of mine. This kid that lived next door to him that knew I was dating, Jeff, would go back to him and tell him if he saw me there because it got to a point where I wanted to see my friends, but like I couldn't, because he would tell me, No, you have to be here with me. You have to come right to my house and be here with me. And if I lied to him, like I said, like, oh, I have to go talk to my mom or I have to go to this appointment a couple times, I lied to him like something like that, so that I could go hang out with some friends so that I could get some space. And the kid that was like, basically spying on me would go back to Jeff and say, like, Oh, she's over here or she's there. And it was so weird and crazy. It made me feel so vulnerable. I was like, Oh, my God, he's got like, spies everywhere. He knows exactly where I'm going. He knows when I lie to him, because somehow he's got these people like spying on me. I'm like, I don't even know where to go now return. So literally got to the point where I had no friends left. All I had was him. And I just became so dependent on him. Whatever he said, we were going to do was what we were going to do, and I didn't have a choice in the matter.
 
Marissa: So he tried to well actively isolate you from all of your friends and family so that he can have full control over you. That's awful.
 
Liz: Yeah, and it worked. It worked because I don't have the most Kodak picture-perfect family. So I have my own issues there about family. So it was easy to get me away from family it was I don't have the best relationship with some people in my family. So that was easy. The hard part was distancing me from my friends, because I always did have such good connections with my friends, at least the friends I had at the time. I still have a couple friends from that group. It's just, I just don't have anyone else. I literally only have one or two friends left from that group. It's weird how much it all ended up affecting me It ended up I literally like lifelong friends I had through high school and like school and whatever, like I don't have any more and it's really weird to think about how like all this unraveled and touched so much of my life.
 
Marissa: How do you think that this abuse is still affected you?
 
Liz: It still affected me because it makes me so hard to trust people now I don't know what kind of ulterior motives are lying behind what someone wants from me. Like, it makes me always second guess, well, why does this person want to be friends with me? Like, what are they going to get out of this friendship and it makes it so hard and like kind of makes me feel a little lonely. Because like I said, like, so many people ended up getting involved in this situation, and not all of them know the truth. So that's hard to like, a lot of rumors ended up going around a lot of false information that made me look bad, not even him. So at the end of the day, like he's the one that caused all this, you know, mess. And then I'm the one who gets the short end of the stick nobody involved in the situation wants to hang out with me or be my friend anymore, because they hear these lies and like the untrue part of the story. And it's like, you know, now all these years later, it makes me feel so lonely in betrayed.
 
Marissa: How did you get out of it? How did you leave? What was the last straw? And what did you do?
 
Liz: It was right around May. He and I got into a few altercations. In the March-April timeframe, which I still don't know how to, like get the words out of my mouth about. But it did result in him putting his hands on me in a way that he should not have. And so that was the final straw that was like, I did this weird dip with my, emotions. I really hit rock bottom where I was like, that's it. I'm just always going to be treated like this for the rest of my life. And then I did this weird rebound, right in the beginning of May, where I was like, You know what, no, I'm not gonna be treated like this, I am going to find a way out because High School is almost over. And there's a way to get out of this. There's other people in the world that do care about me. And it was right around the time that my mom and I were actually patching things up. So I went to her house for Mother's Day and met her new boyfriend who was now my stepdad. We were talking and hanging out and it was just a really good time. And I ended up confiding in her some things, you know, saying how unhappy I was and how he's just ruining everything about me. He was ruining me as a person. He was making me an unreliable person. He was making me lie. And I just, I'm so sick to my stomach with this relationship I need to get out. And actually it involves me moving back in with her. During the course of this relationship, He had convinced me to get into a fight with my mom and move out of her house and with my dad and then was causing fights between me my dad, so I moved back in with my mom because we were fixing things and I had confided that with her. Unfortunately, it still took a couple more months. So unfortunately, like I still went to senior prom with him. I didn't have a choice in that I had to go to senior prom with him. There was no way I was getting out of that. So I did that and it was just the worst night of my life ever. People ridiculed me all through post prom. It was just horrible the public humiliation I went through with him. And then the last straw was he invited himself on this family trip we were all taking. And I told my mom, I said, I can't, he cannot come with us. He needs to realize this relationship is ending and it's over. And he just needs to stop. He needs to stop contacting me. He needs to stop being around me. He definitely cannot come on this trip. And she said, you need to call him and tell him that. So I called him and I had him on speaker and I actually was literally I was sitting on the floor. My mom was sitting on the stairs and I called him and put him on speaker. And I did say I said you know, things with us are over. Please do not come on the trip. Please do not show up tomorrow morning. Please do not come. And I was very nice. Just very civil like that. And he was just so insistent. He said, No, I will be there and coming on the trip. We're going to fix things he just had it so intent in his heart. He was going to fix everything. And I just said to him, I said over and over again. I can't even like remember how long the phone call lasted but it felt like forever. Just be begging him. Please, please do not come. And I got to the point where I even though like maybe if I tried to use like a scary voice like I don't know, I just thought like if I put on like big girl pants and like this did girl voice like maybe he would get the memo. And I did say at one point I said I swear to God, if you come on this trip, this is not going to be a good thing. And like I tried to be as demanding as possible. But it just wasn't It wasn't happening. He showed up and came on the trip anyway. And throughout the whole trip, we fought. I was sick the whole time, violently sick the whole time. Like my family was so confused by what was going on. Like kind of bragged on me about it too. Like, why is she always in the bathroom? Like why won't she come out of her room? Why won't she come out and enjoy family time? And it was because he was there? And no, no one was really backing me up and saying you know what, you shouldn't be here, you shouldn't be coming on this trip, and you should go home. So, that was the final straw and we did finally, by the end of that trip, we had finally officially broken up.
 
Marissa: Okay, good. Well, I'm glad that you got out of it. I'm sorry that, you know, he came on the trip and ruined that trip for you and all the things that came with it, I want to go back real quick and just comment on being on the floor. I also like being on the floor. And I think it like grounds us, you know, we can be so comfortable. And I don't know the kind of physical abuse or anything that you've endured. But for me, I was pushed off a lot of chairs, and my chairs were flipped and things were you know, so like I was always falling and hitting my head or hitting my back or hitting my shoulders. And so for me sitting on the floor is like a very comfortable thing. Because like I can't fall, you know. And it's been 10 years since my abuse and I’m still always worried about falling. Thank you so much for sharing your story And I'm sorry that you went through everything you went through. I know that you said earlier that my books and everything have helped you. And that makes me feel really good. So thank you for saying that. What have you done thus far to help you heal from it? Because obviously, you're in a great relationship now.
 
Liz: Yeah, so many things. Another thing that kind of got me in the situation I was back then was low self-esteem. I was bullied all throughout middle school and a good portion of high school. And another thing I've just been coming out and talking about recently is an eating disorder. I actually was anorexic on and off. And of course, like that was never a good thing. I had severe anxiety and I just had such like low self-esteem. So I believe that, that was the core problem. So that is the first thing I addressed when trying to rebuild and heal and recover. So I got into healthy eating and yoga and working out lots of meditation and just focusing on the things that I love about myself and not the things that I hate and just building myself up instead of tearing myself down. So when I look in the mirror, I don't say like, oh, your skin looks bad and you're fat. I say like, dang, you thick and you beautiful and have awesome hair. And it's like, okay, I can live with that. Like you had mentioned my boyfriend. I mean, he had the best reaction out of anyone I've ever told. So I told him when he and I originally got back together. I waited about I guess it was about a month to tell him the gory details. He had the best reaction. I mean, nobody else reacted the way he did. He just put his arms around me No one has ever hugged me when I told them they were just skeptical and wanted to know more and he didn't care. He didn't care about the details. It took me so much by surprise that I didn't know to hug him back. He literally like just he grabbed my arm to like stop me from talking just pulled me in into this like the most comforting hug I've ever had. I almost like I was just so frozen. I didn't hug them back. It took me like a few minutes of him hugging me to be like, Okay, this is the part that I actually hug back and reciprocate that feeling. So yeah, he's just been amazing. And he's never pushed for me to tell him any more than what I have. I mean, he's always been open for me. He's always said, you know, whatever you want to tell me I'm here for. He's like, but I'm not going to ask. And I'm not going to push. That has been the main thing that has supported me because people that have found out have really pushed me to give more detail like, well, what was the part that really was the bad part? What was the worst part? And there are so many rumors. There's rumors of more like violence, like, there wasn't this violence of like him punching me constantly. He kind of did this thing where like, he would like, wave his arms really close to me or wave his hands like in front of my face, or by me and like, when he was angry, he was yelling at me like, as intimidation. But I could never actually say that he hit me. He had never hit me. He just made me feel like he was about to all the time. And that was one thing. Another rumor that went around was that he choked me out. He didn't choke me out. He just scared me. And that's what people like, people that started finding out more things that happened. More people started misconstruing them and like lying, like, Oh, I heard she got choked out. And I heard like, he punched her. Like, it's not what happened. It wasn't abusively violent like that. It was just him manipulating me to give him anything he wanted. And that does include us having sex on that was the first time I had sex. And it was the whole thing was manipulation from beginning to end of like, we're just going to do this or we're just going to do that we're not going to you know. Don't worry. Like, you know, you love me. So because you love me, you're going to do it anyway. And like, just this weird mix of like, comforting me with comforting words. Like don’t worry, its okay. And then this weird, like aggressive part where it's like, well, you love me. So you're going to do this. It was just all manipulation, I don't have any other word for it than that. And it just, yeah So when I started to try to tell people how like, it was just, it was just this mess of things of all these things I didn't want to do, including having sex I did not want to do that did not want to have sex with him. But because it was what he wanted. And because he used his the words the way he did to benefit himself. He got what he wanted.
 
Marissa: So no matter if he hit you or not, it's abuse. And I personally think that emotional and verbal abuse are more lasting, because the words really stick with you and they haunt you for years. I mean, like I said before, I'm 10 years out, and sometimes I still wake up and I'm like, wow, I'm a real big piece of human garbage. And I'm like, No, I'm not I am worthy. I have to get, you know my ex's voice out of my head. And another thing is those situations where you're being manipulated or coerced into sex is still sexual assault. Any unwarranted unwanted or unwelcome sexual advance. It could be them saying something inappropriate to you or manipulating you into having sex and that is still sexual assault. It leaves an imprint on you negatively, like I know for me, after I was assaulted by my boyfriend, sex didn't feel good for years. I couldn't figure out if it was me. Or if it was, I didn't know. But I just had such a horrible traumatic experience that I couldn't understand why people love sex so much. Did you have something like that?
 
Liz: Actually, exactly that. And in one of, I believe your stories in Breaking Through the Silence: The Journey to Surviving Sexual Assault, at one point you it said like even when it was happening to like when you know you don't want it but like you can't control it, you just feel numb. Like when it was happening. I don't even remember what it felt like. So like my first time ever having sex. I don't even remember what it felt like because I just remember feeling numb and scared and afraid and not knowing what to do. I was just there. I was just existing in that moment. And I don't know anything else. So when this was all said and done when truth started coming out, and he actually did admit to what he was doing at the end. So at the end, there was this weird meeting between me, Jeff, Dan, and this other kid that was kind of involved in the situation. And he did admit to the four of us and in that circle that night was like, yeah, no, I lied. I lied to her and I lied to him to break them up. And this is what I did. And like he admitted it, he had totally admitted it and was not denying anything. So, once things started progressing like that, and dust started settling Dan and I actually did get back together. We dated on and off the first year and a half into college. And I have to say, he was such a tremendous support. During all those times whether we were on or off. He never pushed me and it definitely was tough being sexually active with him because I didn't know what I was doing. I was still scarred and afraid of the things that had happened. I didn't know what to do next, I didn't know how to be with a guy, and my first time was just ruined. And now this new time that I this new chance I have, I still don't really know what I'm doing. So it definitely took a while for me to come around. But I have to say I could not have asked for a better boyfriend at the time than Dan. He was super, super supportive. Whatever I said I needed he did or he got for me. And it was just great. And to this day, we're still really good friends, I still hold him as like a really good friend to me. And my boyfriend completely knows all of this, like when we are getting back together. And I was divulging all this stuff you know, I told him all of that I was like, Listen, like, Dan and I were still friends because he him and I had just been through all of this mess together. And we're just we just still even years after we've broken up, still support each other no matter what we're doing career wise. And he's got a girlfriend who is wonderful. I think she's a nicest person in the world. Like, couldn't ask for a better person for him to be with either. That's really the light out of everything that had happened is my friendship with him. And I'm still really good friends with Zack too. He is a really cool friend of mine. We're always joking around. And we call each other every now and then because we've all moved away. No, none of us live there anymore.
 
Marissa: So what advice would you give to other survivors who have gone through or are going through something similar?
 
Liz: The advice I would give, is to talk despite whatever voice that is in your head, or weird feelings you have about it, talk. I went years without talking and even after so like I would have these weird like occasional explosions, like at one point, I had not talked about it for like a year. And then I had an explosion about it with my mom and my stepdad. And I had another explosion about it a significant period of time, like six months or something like that with some other like another group of friends that I had made, like these weird explosions. And it came to a point where I was like, maybe I wouldn't explode if I talked about it in a healthy environment and got it out of my system. So that's what I started doing. One of my best friends now that I made in high school, she is also really super supportive of all this. And she has been the main person that I've gone to like when I feel it bubbling up again. And I feel like something's come up where I need to, like express this or express that she has been awesome, where I've been able to, like call her or like go over her house and be like, Listen, I need to talk about this. And you don't have to say anything back because, you know, sometimes there's nothing to say back. But I just need to like say this out in the open in the air so that it's not inside me. I've actually still haven't really formally seeing a therapist. It's a daily debate for me. I, to this day, a million years later, I still wake up every day and at least once a day think about like finding a therapist to talk to. But I have this weird pride about it, and I would say to survivors to not have that weird, stupid pride. Because I have this weird battle inside me about therapists where like, I know, I should go to one and I should really keep working on the progress I've made. But I have this other side of me that's super proud of the progress I've made. And all this time being alone without a therapist and just being like, you know what, I don't need a therapist, because I already did the significant amount of work that needs to be done when you're healing. But I would say don't do that, because it's not healthy what took me probably 10 times longer than it should have to heal. So I would say talk and talk to someone professional.
 
Marissa: Yeah, that's a good idea. Professional help can be very, very good, for some people, it doesn't work for everyone. So I always tell people don't rely on a therapist, you have to do a lot of work yourself as you've learned Liz. But having an ear like a listening ear with somebody professional can be very, very helpful. Also know that it's not like a one stop shop. Not every therapist is a perfect match for you. So if the first one doesn't work, keep therapists shopping, because you'll find somebody that fits you perfectly and understands you. It's not like they're all trained exactly the same. Well, it's really good that you have such a support network, though, I'm really happy that you have friends to turn to and have a better relationship with your family that you feel comfortable talking to them. And that you found somebody that rewired you back to a good sense of self and of what you should expect from a relationship. That's really important. I'm so proud of you.
 
Liz: Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, and that's the main reason why all these years later, I'm finally ready to like talk about it because I do finally have the support network that I should have had in the beginning. And like I said from the beginning like your organization, your podcasts your books, have helped me tremendously like reading all the stories and hearing everyone else's stories and being like you know what, there are other people in the world that makes their stories publicly known. And I can do that I can speak up. So yeah, thank you. Thank you.
 
Marissa: Thank you. I hope and I'm also really glad that you felt confident enough and empowered enough to speak up and want to help other people do the same. I think that's really admirable. And I love you. Oh, is there anything that you want to share any projects or anything?
 
Liz: Actually, um, I have started a book about my life. So it does go from like, my childhood about middle school-esk time to current day. I don't know if it's something I'll ever publish, but it's something I'm doing as part of my healing to like, put everything down like in a book and be able to like, look back at it and read on it and just be like, you know, what, I've been through the wringer. I've been through a lot of things in my somewhat short life. I mean, I'm only like, 26. So I just been through, I just can't even believe all the things I've been through. So yeah, I am writing a book. Whether I ever publish it or not, is another story. But yeah.
 
Marissa: Well, if you ever decide to publish it, let me know I can help you.
 
Liz: Cool, sounds good.
 
Marissa: Thank you again, so much for being here, Liz. I really appreciate you speaking out and empowering the survivor community to speak up and become the champion of their voice like you have, and I am just so grateful. Thank you very much.
 
Liz: Oh, of course. Thank you so much for having me. This was so wonderful.
 
Marissa: Oh, good. Okay, well, I'll have you on again soon. We'll do a month check back or something on your book and on your therapy.
 
Hey! If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching.  Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!
how to keep my kids safe from abusive relationships. toxic boyfriend. signs of a toxic boyfriend. signs your boyfriend is toxic. toxic boyfriend traits. my boyfriend is toxic. escaping a toxic relationship. different types of toxic relationships. toxic controlling relationship. toxic manipulative relationships. fixing toxic relationships.

Healing From Emotional Abuse: How To Heal: With Nana Ponceleon

Get Your FREE COPY of  my book, 3 Signs of A Toxic Relationship, Now...
Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to be a five year process either. Millions of other survivors around the worlds entire lives have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.
 
 
 
Marissa: Hey guys, welcome back to Healing From Emotional Abuse. April is Sexual Assault Awareness Month. And for the month I wanted to speak with champions, people who have overcome their abuse and are now working to change the world for survivors to help them become the champions of their stories. I want to celebrate taking our lives back and hopefully encourage others to do the same. With us today is my dear friend, Nana Ponceleon. She was born in Venezuela and before she had the courage to do what she really wanted. She got a bachelor's degree in business administration with a minor in computer science from Pace University in New York. She worked in sales and marketing in several companies, including Microsoft for over 11 years. Today, she's a full time actress in New York. She's worked in over 27 films, short films, features and TV shows, and many commercials and plays since graduating from Stella Adler. She is passionate about the human spirit has created a project which the vision is to create a world where women and men collaborate, cooperate and co-create their shared world together called Act Feminine. Act Feminine today is more focused on helping women but it will evolve in the future to be all inclusive. Thank you so much for being here. Nana, I'm so excited to talk to you.
 
Nana: Oh, not as much as me. Thank you for inviting me and thinking of me!
 
Marissa: Anytime. So Nana, and I met at a Tony Robbins retreat. And we instantly clicked and fell in love and I adore her. I watch her Act Feminine videos on YouTube. All the time. Every time they're on every time she puts out a new one. I'm probably like the fifth person to watch it.
 
Nana: You're so sweet. Thank you,
 
Marissa: Of course. And thank you for being here today and sharing your story. You were telling me before we started recording that this is the first time that you're publicly sharing your story, right?
 
Nana: This is absolutely correct. It's like coming out of the closet for me.
 
Marissa: How do you feel right now?
 
Nana: Nervous. Excited, but nervous,
 
Marissa: Understandable, just know that you are sharing with a supportive community. And we're here to empower you. And I'm really, really honored that you chose me and Healing From Emotional Abuse to be you’re coming out party.
 
Nana: Well, I guess the title is perfect for me today.
 
Marissa: Well, I'm glad you're here. So let's get started. Would you mind telling us a little bit about your story, or as much of your story as you're comfortable sharing?
 
Nana: Okay, so I, as you said, I'm from Venezuela, but I moved to Baton Rouge because that's where my dad went to school at LSU. And I have deer. And you know, my mom's family there who moved when I was very little, and I decided to go to LSU as well. I met this man, we got married at 19 years old. I was a baby, and he's from Venezuela, too. So I moved to New Orleans because my boyfriend, your husband at the time was working there. And four months into the marriage, we got married December. And in April, I walked into my apartment coming back from school and this man was inside the apartment. Initially, he said that, you know, where the money is, it looked like a robbery. But eventually, you know, it turned into a rape. And my life just got… I don't even know what the word is. But I guess transformed, changed in an instant. It became a before and after. And I'm not married to my husband at the time anymore. Which to me it's sort of understandable because, you know, four months into a marriage, you get raped inside your house. It just my whole life became a full big mess. I didn't tell anybody at the time. I didn't tell my mom. My father was the only one who found out actually because, strangely enough, which might not be strange for those people who believe in this things. But he called when the police were at my apartment and it was just total chaos in the apartment. They were taking prints and you know, the police flooded the place afterwards to investigate and he called right at that moment. So it was inevitable for him to find out but I didn't share it with anybody. And I can't tell you that I was ashamed. I think I was numb more than anything, and probably that's what made me not want to share it. Because I literally didn't know what was going on. It was like this weird feeling of being here but not being here. I don't know. I don't know if I'm making sense.
 
Marissa: Oh, that makes total sense. It's like it's, um, dissociation.
 
Nana: Yes that I think that's the perfect word. Yes, you're totally correct. Which I can do very well, you know, and I think that was my survival mechanism.
 
Marissa: That makes sense. And it's super common. A lot of people dissociate especially during intimate moments, or moments of chaos and confusion. They just like leave their body.
 
Nana: Yes, that oh my god. It's so funny that you say, well, not funny. Amazing that you say that? Because after the rape, he was still in the apartment. And well, I was totally, you know, I was tied up and he knew what he was doing. And I remember thinking in an instant, that with the most peaceful feeling, which was the weirdest thing. I remember saying to God, God…. you can take me now. But it was so peaceful though my reset, it was so strange, because it really was, like, I was feeling an out of body experience. Like, literally went into this place of total peace, which is so weird. And it wasn't a white tunnel. It wasn't that kind of thing. You know, no white tunnel or anything. It actually it was very black, to, you know, everything I saw, or I felt what was in my mind and someone who I love dearly, Also from the Tony Robbins community, She's an amazing, amazing woman, Jessie Child, she said to me that is exactly what you're describing, that you felt is exactly what we strive for, through meditation. And through, wanting to go into this oneness sensation, because I literally felt like my body was not there. And I was in this black space, or everything was like, suspended, and I felt nothing. But the nothing wasn't like, it was peace. And, and that's why I kept saying, God, you know, you can take me now you can take now. But you know, it's, okay. It's done.
 
Marissa: That's so scary. You know, so you were totally at peace with that.
 
Nana: But with leaving. With going. With dying
 
Marissa: Yeah. And I'm sure that's a relatable feeling for a lot of people, especially in something that's as intense or violent.
 
Nana: Yes. And, and I think also, because also, I didn't know what was going to happen, because he was still in the room. And I didn't know if he would kill me if he would rape me again, if I had no idea because I couldn't see. So it was this feeling of I don't want to go through this again. I'd rather die.
 
Marissa: Thank you so much for sharing that. It's such a tender, sensitive moment, and thank you for being so vulnerable with us. I just think it's so important that people know, that after such a traumatic situation, that there's a myriad of ways people feel it's not like everyone immediately goes to telling people or anger. You're human, you know, so everything you experience is so personal. And thank you for being so candid with us. That's, you know, really, really helpful.
 
Nana: Well, no, no, my pleasure, you know. If, if I'm going to come out, I'm going to come out.. And, to me, now that you say anger, you know, that anger has been an emotion, not readily available to me through this process. It came and went. And that is very strange, because when I used to think of rape, I would think, okay, the emotion is anger, you know, the natural one, and that the one that you would live in all at all times. And it wasn't for me, but I think it was my ability to dissociate. I was very good at that ever since I was a girl actually, and this has nothing to do with the rape. Whenever something emotional and stressful came into my life. I was able to sort of detach and literally go into this place of feeling nothing. And I think it came handy in this situation, you know? I talked to an expert from Columbia University here because I worked in a project, I was blessed to work on a project on grief therapy, though it's not for rape victims is for parents who have lost children. I asked her and I said, listen, there are parts and there are things I don't remember and I literally don't remember. Like, no matter how I try, I don't remember. And she uses in grief therapy, taking the parents through the whole process of remembering every single detail. And I said, Okay, so maybe I'm not gonna totally heal, if I don't go through that process. And she said, and I'm sharing this because this might help some people, you know, I don't know. She said, No, because it's different. A parent loves their children, they adore them. And when they lose the children and forget parts of what happened and the life, they feel twice as guilty, because they feel like they're betraying their children by not remembering. So the remembering process is a healing process.
In your case, you really don't want to do the work of remembering. And if you truly don't remember, and you're okay with it, and it doesn't bother you, then let it be. That to me was like, Oh, what a relief.
 
Marissa: Thank you so much for saying that. That's so important. A lot of people I've found doubt themselves and doubt that it really happened and question whether or not there, you know, they're really a victim because they don't remember some or any of what happened to them. But it's a trauma response, fight, flight freeze, and then tonic immobility, some people freeze, and then they freeze it out, and they dissociate, and some people will fight back. But not a lot of people will fight back, you know, and that's not, that doesn't mean that you're not a victim. It doesn't mean that it didn't happen, it just means that your brain is protecting you by shielding out those memories.
 
Nana: Totally, totally. And that's exactly what happened to me. And when I talked to Katherine, she said, perfectly normal. And you shouldn't make an effort to try to remember, you know, I was taking to hypnosis session or a couple, trying to because I saw him very briefly, I walked into the room, he had closed the shades, the room was dark, and he just jumped on me. So I saw him actually just the second and we had dark Rayban glasses covering his eyes, which is very smart, because eyes are very distinct. And they took me to hypnosis sessions to try to remember and sort of freeze his image. So I could do the portrait again, that they could draw the portrait again, based on what I was seeing during hypnosis. There was no way they could take me past the door. Even under hypnosis, every time they would bring me in the room. I said, you know, I'm walking down my hallway and I get to the door of my room, and there I stopped and they go like, Okay, so what else? What's next? I just, I never was able to make that next step, and walk into a room. So it was impossible. We couldn't do it. Not even under hypnosis. So that's how much you shield yourself.
 
Marissa: Yeah, your brain knows what's best for you. And if it doesn't want you to remember if it blocked it out, you know, maybe there's a reason for it.
 
Nana: Yeah, absolutely, though, and this is something I'm going to share. And I'm going to jump to the movie that we've talked about. Because I decided for those who are listening to this and don't know, obviously, I decided to make a movie, after many, many years. And the reason I made I decided to make the movie and this is also first, I was on a set of a show called the Perfect Murder. And I'm in the scene and I am the killer. So these two cops are supposed to arrest me.  And you know, we're on one of the breaks. And we're talking and they say that they were real NYPD detectives, and I'm like, Oh my God, you know, you're acting, and you're doing this. And you know, they say yes, because sometimes they use this also as advisors, because these are recreations of true stories. So they need, you know, the police to verify that what they're showing is the way things are done. So we started talking about police and all of a sudden, we talk about police corruption. Low and behold, the police that investigated my case came as one of the most corrupt in the country. And all of a sudden I went like, Oh my God, because and I'm not going to share the whole details. But weeks after the rape, I'm driving to school and I see him without, like I said giving too much details. The police told me that it couldn't have been him. He wasn't there at that time. Because then I'm like, Okay, why? How do you know? Well, he's an undercover cop. So it couldn't have been.
 
I am 100% sure that it was him. Same hair, same Rayban sunglasses. You're around my neighborhood. And when these guys are telling me this, I went like, Oh my god, this is what happened. And at the time, I had no representation. It was just my husband and meet two young people who were from Venezuela. And why would we doubt what the police are telling me. And I just let it be and moved to New York to live a better life because I literally couldn't live there. It was, too tough and for me, different than sometimes for other people, of course, you know, I just couldn't walk into my apartment, the fear was being inside the house instead of outside of the streets. That is not a good feeling.
 
Marissa: No, I can't even imagine it's supposed to be your safe haven. And it's where you're feeling the most vulnerable.
 
Nana: Oh, it was terrible. I had to buy an emotional support dog. I bought a German Shepherd at the time. And until like, yeah, until I heard Max barking, I wouldn't go in. I had to check everything in the apartment under the bed and the closets. And before I could sort of relax
 
Marissa: In such a system, you know, that, that? It's so uncomfortable and feeling that fear in your home? I couldn't imagine.
 
Nana: Yeah, it was that's why you know, it's like your life just goes inside out in an instant. It's like, relationships, change. Your relationship with the environment changes, everything.
 
Marissa: So let's talk a little bit about the movie you're putting out, you're putting out a short film, you wrote it, you're acting and you're co-producing it. And it's about your story.
 
Nana: Right? So this short film is just going to be I'm calling it, you know, people call it a teaser. Because the movie that I want to make is the long, the feature film. This one is just to start creating awareness on this. And what happens to a person when they become obsessed is, and it's a little bit about justice, but it's also about healing. It's about her obsession of reopening the case, that drives her a bit crazier, and how that doesn't necessarily heal you. Though, of course, justice is justice. And it has to happen. It's not the healing, what I found is that it's not what heals you, you know, I can put him in prison and still suffer every day. So it for me, it was like a reveal. So this short film is more focused on that, because I initially got very upset and very angry. And I wanted to reopen the case. And I'm not going to explain all the details of what that entitles. And whether I'm doing it or not, because it's very easy today, they have my DNA. And I have a suspect identified. So it would be it's very, very easy. You know, you do a test period, then. So anyway, I got very angry and then it just dawned on me that whether he's in jail or not, my process is my process. And the healing comes from another place, from within.
 
Marissa: 100%.  People who have not gone through this will often say, well, you know, if you put them in jail, or if you make a report, it'll make you feel better, because you'll know they're behind bars and they can't hurt other people. And while that's 100% true, it’s not going to heal anyone, because we the crime scene is our bodies. You know, it's not like an end. For you it was in your house. So not only are you living in a skin body that makes you feel uneasy and uncomfortable and vulnerable, but you're taking that body and putting it in a home that also makes you feel uneasy, uncomfortable and vulnerable. So wherever this person resides, whether it be jail, six feet under or next door, you will have the same problem and the same process to heal because that person did what they did. And it is still affecting you day to day.
 
Nana: Correct! Absolutely correct. Because even if he would have gone to prison the next day, I would have had to go through the same process of healing. And that is so important for I think for victims of any crime actually, that healing is from within. If we focus too much on the outside, searching for the healing outside by putting them in jail by revenge by hate by all of that it only makes it worse.
 
Marissa: Absolutely. That anger just fuels. It fuels the negativity and it's toxic.
 
Nana: Yes. And like you say, of course they deserve justice. Of course they do they deserve to be behind bars. Yes. I mean, no question about it. But don't put your expectations that once that happens, you're healed. That's the only thing.
 
Marissa: So what did you do to help you heal? You got an emotional support animal, you moved. But was there anything else that you did?
 
Nana: Oh, I have done throughout the years, many things. I initially went to a rape crisis group, which helped a little bit. And eventually I said, you know, I can't do this anymore. To me, it was too much. I sort of felt that I was visiting that every day, and it to me it didn't work as well. I mean, there were ladies there who had been going for quite a while. It did help a lot. And this I have to say in Releasing the initial release of just explaining, saying, sharing with other women that were supportive that that helped a lot. However, it got to a point where, okay, I Released it. I've said it a million times, I've described what I remember, but it was hurting me too much. So I stopped then after a couple of years, well, after I graduated Actually, I moved from there to New York, like I said, to start a new life. I graduate into graduating here in New York, and I went back home. After graduation, I started therapy there, my mom had gone to therapy for her divorce, thank god bless her. And I started with that therapist, it took me six months before I started talking about it in therapy. It was group therapy. First time I ever heard of something like that. Powerful, powerful kind of therapy. And six months in he says okay, Nana so when are we going to talk about this? I'm like, “Yeah, well, maybe next session, but this problem with my mom, and my soon to be ex-husband, blah, blah, blah.” And he just took a sweater out of his neck that he always had started to wrap it around, and just jumped on me. And he created a like, he opened, he connected me with the moment. He just jumped on me as if it was attacking me. And I just couldn't breathe. It was horrible, but it was the only way to get me started on talking about it.
 
So I started working on it there, I ended up getting a divorce. Because like I said, you know, it was a marriage just couldn't survive that it was too much. So I got a divorce and then but I got better throughout through my therapy. And then over the years, it's been just healing in the sense of first being very clear that it wasn't my fault. Because I went over this a million times that I leave the door open, because I went into the apartment, went back outside to look for my mail and then came back in. And I blamed myself for leaving the door open for years. And  the NYPD detective (someone else not the ones on the set) told me he had been watching you for a while this is not this was not a robbery who turned into a rape. And that scared the hell out of me thinking that this person had been watching me and then one day decided to do it. It's a very scary thing. So that, you know, I had to deal with that. So I didn't feel paranoid that everybody was watching me all the time. But it's been a process. You know, it's been between therapy and just awareness. The Act Feminine project has helped a lot, also.
 
Marissa: Tell me about that project.
 
Nana: Okay, so the project is about connecting women with their femininity. And of course, after hearing the story about the break, you can imagine why I was probably disconnected with my feminine. But the truth is, I wasn't because of just because of the rape. I realized that I had been disconnected from my feminine side. Basically all my life. I've been very masculine energy oriented all my life. My dad was my hero, I wanted to be with him all the time. We you know, there was no brothers in the family. And my dad was always fixing cars and doing things, and for me to be with him in that I had sort of to become his boy. So I did that, oh, my life. And my mom wasn't the best role model for her for feminine side. And I want to clarify this. This is not about nail polish or heels. It is about the energies that we all humans have the masculine and the feminine, or the Ying and the Yang. And people call it whatever name you want. But it's just these two polarities that we all have inside, you know about this, because we do it at Tony's events and talk about that. Actually, at a Tony event was when all of this dawned on me, because I got married, again, I'm divorcing my second husband, after 25 years And this has a lot to do with it. I was mostly in my masculine, which meant, our roles were reversed. And I wasn't fulfilled as a woman.
So I decided to create the Act Feminine because I see so many women out there, and they don't have to be abused, to be in this feminism and extreme feminism, with social environment with the economy, that it's fully operating on masculine energy, makes us women just become fighters and hunters all the time and little time for the feminine, which is what heals us. Which is what takes stress out. And this is not said by me, then you know, many experts are talking about this, when we don't go to our feminine side, as much, or at least half and half, we get sick, we get stressed beyond what is normal stress and stress that you can handle, we get sick, more women are dying from cancer than ever before. Heart disease is the number one cause of death, 2/3 of people with mental illness, Alzheimer's, dementia are women. So there are a lot of and I'm not saying that only this is the cause. But definitely, if we don't go to our feminine side, we don't relax. Our cortisol levels don't go down. We need oxytocin for that to happen. The only way to generate oxytocin, estrogen, dopamine, and serotonin is when we go to our feminine. Masculine energy generating testosterone in my body, all the time with cortisol becomes the time bomb. So that's why I started the project and obviously, being raped was like the last straw for me.
 
Marissa: The pinnacle of all of it.
 
Nana: Right? I was in my masculine energy a lot. And then the rape comes right when I'm starting a new life when I'm starting a new marriage. Oh, that was that was it for my femininity. It was like, Okay, so the energy that I feel comfortable in safe, with my masculine, which I still do, and I love.
 
Marissa: I'm the same way
 
Nana: I adore my masculine energy. And when I talk to women that are very extreme feminists, I say, you know, it's not about giving up. Because it really isn't, it's not about giving up rights. It's not about giving up your masculine, it’s just about learning how to use another side of you.
 
Marissa: It's balancing yourself, it's knowing that you don't have to fit into a stereotype. You know, you don't have to paint your nails every day and do your hair and makeup every day in order to be and feel like a woman.
 
Nana: Correct. And that is so important because people think of femininity, or the feminine energy as that. And that's why one of my mantras is “Femininity is not something you wear, it's something you feel.”
 
Marissa: Exactly. If I don't feel like brushing my hair, I don't.
 
Nana: And that's fine. You know that that's fine. That doesn't mean that you're not going to be connecting with people that you're not going to be creating. It has nothing to do with the outside.
 
Marissa: 100% thank you for sharing that. I think that's really an important thing for everyone. But I think especially for survivors and champions, I feel like the world paints such a vivid picture of what a victim should look like. And most of the time that's not accurate. So, I think at least, we get really confused and feel like we're not we're not victims or we don't deserve, you know, happiness or we don't deserve to feel better, because while it wasn't that bad, but it is that bad. It's always that bad. It doesn't matter what the situation was. And being able to engage both sides of your energy, I think allows us to be more forgiving of ourselves and more tolerant of our own processes.
 
Nana: Absolutely, absolutely. You just said something that made me made me think even further of this. Feminine-masculine energy for victims specifically, because when you were describing that I felt this little, my heart jumped a little bit and I said, Okay, I know why this just happened two seconds ago. And it happened because, in a way, what you're saying is so absolutely spot on. If you're a victim, in your mind, at least I felt that way. I can't be happy. I can't enjoy. I can't flow. Because then what kind of a victim am I? Nobody's gonna feel sorry for me. They're not gonna love me. They're not gonna, they're gonna say, Oh, really? You were abused? You don't look like it?
 
Marissa: Right? Oh, if you are a real victim, you'd be crying. You wouldn't talk about it? Well, no, I mean, that's not true. You smile. You're not a victim. If you were really raped or abused, you wouldn't be smiling or laughing. You know, and that's not that's not fair to survivors. It's not fair to paint that picture on them. Because it deters people from speaking up. And encourages low self esteem and self doubt.
 
Nana: Correct. Now, I'm going to tell it to every victim out there. The power from within of being happy and feeling joy and pleasure, though. I was victimized. That is the true power. That is the true revenge. If you want any kind of revenge. My revenge is I am the woman I am today because of what happened. And I have no doubt about that Marissa. No doubt. Zero. 
 
Marissa: Yes, yes. I say the same thing. You know, I'm not happy about what happened to me. It's not like I celebrate it. But I celebrate the person I became because of it. Yes. Thank you, Nana. Yes.
 
Nana: Totally. And I say it over and over, like, not everybody. Well, I don't I very few people know about this, actually, compared to the people I know. And some people are going to be very surprised. But I always say that I used to say the therapy right, the therapy that I did at that time, made me into the person that I am today. Of course, they didn't know that I went there because of the rape. But it is I mean, I am this woman that I am today, sharing this being able to teach this being able to help other women because of what happened. And like you say Happy? Of course not. I mean, it was years of hell, months of hell of crying, and you know, I cried enough already. It was Hell. But this Heaven that I'm living in and striving for every day, came out of that. And I am grateful and blessed.
 
Marissa: Thank you so much for being here. And thank you so much. For all the beautiful advice and words of wisdom and strength that you embody and gave to us and all the survivors and champions out there. I am so honored to be your friend and if you need an extra or something in your movie, hit me up.
 
Nana: Oh, listen for the feature. We'll need a lot of people and help.
 
Marissa: Yes, perfect. I'm in sign me up.
 
Nana: I'll take your word. I'm gonna put that on the paper.
 
Marissa: Perfect. Thank you for listening and supporting survivors and champions all over the world. When we can encourage survivors to speak out about their abuse, we are slowly but surely changing the world for survivors and champions everywhere. If you're interested in supporting Nana's cause you'll find a link below to the Kickstarter for her movie. Thank you again so much for supporting me for supporting Nana and for supporting survivors everywhere. Talk to you next week.
 
Hey! If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching.  Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!
 
police officer assault. stalked by police officer. assault police. assault by police officer. life transformation. life transformation after abuse. life transformations. relationship advice. sexual assault. 

Healing From Emotional Abuse: Tips To Save Money: With Rob Wrubel

Get Your FREE COPY of  my book, 3 Signs of A Toxic Relationship, Now...
Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to be a five year process either. Millions of other survivors around the worlds entire lives have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.
 
Marissa: Welcome back to Healing From Emotional Abuse. Today we're joined with my friend and colleague, Rob Wruble. I met him at a retreat in California, and he is awesome. I'm so happy to have him here today. Rob is the award winning and bestselling author of Financial Freedom for Special Needs Families. He speaks regularly to family organizations, serving people with developmental disabilities, as well as two groups of professionals serving adults with developmental disabilities and their families. Hi, Rob. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited to talk to you.
 
Rob: Marissa, I am too. When we first discussed this, maybe a month ago or so three weeks, I can't remember. I've been looking forward to it pretty much every day. So, I'm glad to be on and thanks for all the work that you do.
 
Marissa: Oh, my gosh, thank you for everything that you do. And that's really nice to hear. So, thank you, I was really excited as well. I've been talking about this a lot. I don't know if you know too much about financial abuse, and I know I've mentioned it in an earlier podcast episode. But a big reason why people survivors do not leave domestic violence situations is because of fear of finances. And a lot of them have endured financial abuse, which can range from either being told they're not allowed to have a job by their narcissist or being forced to work but not having any access to their household money. And that presents a huge problem for people to leave, because it requires a lot of money to leave to be able to get an apartment, especially if you have children. And to be able to feed yourself and your children. So, have you dealt with or worked with people who have had any sort of situation like this or any fear regarding having enough money to survive?
 
Rob: I have it's come up in so many different ways. And certainly, money is for so many people, a meaningful and stressful area of their lives. And I've definitely come across people who really don't have any access to money in the relationship at all. I haven't met that many and I don't have a specific way that said, Gee, I've got no access, I don't have any money. But I've definitely run across people who are who have hinted at that that all of their paycheck goes to their partner or spouse or whomever it is that they're currently living or afraid with. And I've met lots and lots of other people who just feel like they haven't ever been able to put two pennies together, let alone to have a few $100 or a few $1,000 to establish themselves and life. So, it's a huge issue, frankly, for a lot of different people. And the more I've thought about our upcoming talk and talk to some other experts in the field, realize what an issue it is for somebody who feels a little bit hopeless and doesn't necessarily know where their way out is. And so, I look forward to talking to maybe some strategies that can help people out a little bit.
 
Marissa: Awesome. What advice, have you given the people that you've worked with already? Who have dealt with similar situations? Is there anything that you can that you just off hand advice that you give them?
 
Rob: Yeah, there's probably three or four really different areas to think about. And there, they're obviously related, but they're very different. One is, and maybe we can come back to it is how do you have conversations with the person that you live with that you want more access to information about or control over the financial piece, but that's probably the very end because that's probably the biggest, hardest piece to get over. And obviously, for people in abusive relationships, when that may never, that conversation may never happen. There's a bunch of other things that people can do first, what I see a lot is that people just don't think that they can ever even have any money. And it doesn't necessarily come from the relationship partner, it may come from, how they were raised, or how they've always handled money in the past. And so, one way to think about is how are people successful with saving some money versus people that haven't had a chance to do it. And a lot of it when I when I meet and talk to people has to do with the messaging they got when they were younger. Some people were encouraged to you know, take their pennies and put them in a little piggy bank on their desk as a symbol of, hey, you've got some extra put it away. Other people grew up in situations where there just wasn't any extra money to go around. And so, they never got that piece. And so, a lot of times they have to think about what is it that you can do on personal behavior, to find ways to save money. And if you're in a relationship or you don't have a partner you can trust it's a little bit harder. But if you have access to any actual cash, and very often the easiest way to save the first little bit of money for people, and especially for people that are being watched, is to just have some cash available. And so, if you're the person that may be buying groceries and have some money and hopefully, you're not turning in the receipt, you know, is there an extra $5, $10, or $20 a week or a month that you can take and put into pocket. And so, there's a way sometimes just with the change that you get from, from your cup of coffee or a sandwich or something where you can start to accumulate, again, a few dollars is not going to be a lot. But really, I guess one of things that I see is for people who have never been able to put any money aside for anything, it's changing that behavior pattern. And so even if it looks like it's only 50 cents here, and $1 there and $5 there, watching that money add up in a safe and secure place, it might be in the glove compartment of a car, it might be at the bottom of a sock drawer, which is kind of an obvious place, so maybe not the best place. But it's changing that behavior pattern of saying, Okay, I'm the kind of person today that can actually take a little bit of the money that I have access to, and put it in a place where I can keep it, get it when I need to, and see that it's growing on a weekly, daily or monthly basis. And we see that, for people that might even be say saving into a retirement plan at work for the first time, that first paycheck, the second, third and fourth paychecks or money has come out a lot of times, it's the first time anybody's ever saved any money. And after a couple of months, there's a confidence level to the fact that they could put it to the side, that's so important for somebody to save for long term. And I think in the group of people that you talk to and work with, it’s so important to gain some confidence and control by taking very, very small steps. But taking those steps,
 
Marissa: I love the idea of taking little bits of money at a time and hiding it in a place where the narcissist won't find it a lot of the time in these abusive relationships, the abuser will have full access of the money, so won't really have the survivor won't really have cash on them, and if they do, it's very little. And if they do ever have access to any of the money, it's usually very highly secured or monitored by the abuser. So, I love the idea of little by little, even if it's just 50 cents, hiding it somewhere like in a shoe you don't wear is something that's pretty popular. Something that I've been doing, And I know that not a lot of survivors have this ability, because a lot of them don't have access to their money. But I've been bartending for 13 years and every $5 bill I get I put in a drawer. And so, at the end of the year, I have a ton of money saved up that I forgot about or didn't touch, and it ends up paying for a vacation.
 
Rob: No, I love that idea. And it's somehow creating some mental accounting for the thing, like you said, this $5 bill, they're going in the drawer, my daughter used to love Hamilton or still does love Hamilton. And for the first time she ever had a $10 bill on her hand, she's like, I am never spending that. And so, on some level, that's a different one, when people have access to the money is finding some tricks to say that money, I'm not going to touch that money, I'm not going to touch and then it's there. And so that's a different situation for you, or in that case for my daughter. And for somebody who really doesn't have any access at all. But it is finding those little ways, and what we see so often is that it's the really small changes at the beginning, can have really big impacts. And that impact may not be for a month or two or in some cases a year or two.
 
But it's the person that we become by making those small changes. And so, for the group that we're talking to today, I would imagine that so much of it is gaining a little bit of confidence that slowly, again, I don't know all the dynamic particularly well. But that feeling that I, “Hey, I can't hold down a job and should be allowed to do that I can have my own money. And there's nobody that can take that away from me. I can maintain family relationships, and social relationships," that have all been whittled down from what I understand so often and in abusive relationships, the freedom really starts with having that seed of independence. And that comes from having something in somewhere where people can be confident. And one of the great things about money as much as it can be a pain in the neck all the time. And there's never enough of it. And some people seem to have lots and lots and lots of it and don't good, do good things with it. But one of the things about money is it's very tangible and very countable. And so, while we might want to become a better person in some way, or might want to exhibit time, and independence and freedom in some way, that's a little bit harder to measure. Even there, you can come up with metrics but money like if it's 50 cents here, $3 there and $8 there, we can go and count it and we can even say this, it was on this many days, I was able to put the money away. And it lets us as people start to feel like we're making some progress in a very tangible and very measurable way.
 
Marissa: I love that I think you're totally right on being able to be financially independent, even in a very small way, saving little by little but knowing that it's growing, it really does build confidence. That's a really good point. The cost to leave an abuser, let’s just say you're starting from nothing. And you might not know the answer to this question, but what would you think would be a good goal for them as a financial planner to be able to effectively leave?
 
Rob: No, and so often we look at what is that goal, what's it going to take in every city is going to be different. I'm in Colorado, where an apartment probably for two, or three or four people is going to be, gee keeps going up, it's going to be $1,000 a month to $1,800 a month. Whereas 10 or 15 years ago, you could probably move to someplace for $600 a month, it just gets a little bit harder to do that. So, as you know, a lot of apartment places you need to have first month and last month rent, that's probably not the right way to think about it, because there's also a lot of other places that are out there that tend to be on by individuals that tend to be smaller apartment buildings, one or two-family type houses that have been divided up into a couple of different apartments. And you're just looking for something to get by for the first period of time. And so really, I'd want somebody to have one, two, probably three months of rent, there's some other strategies, and we're going to get to about that. But that's probably, you know, in an ideal world, somebody could have two or three months of rent ready to go, and then enough money to put food on the table for the family. And then enough money for utilities, we're just trying to build a life quickly, and get out quickly and find a place to go. So, you're looking at few $1,000 probably get somebody out in almost city in almost any city in the country. But there's a lot of other strategies people can put in place that don't require as much money. And these are, again, confidence building exercises that somebody could start with, that aren't specifically financial in, in Colorado Springs where I live. And I know pretty much in every community of a decent size around the country. There are lots of nonprofits that serve people who have abusive relationships. There are lots of organizations that serve people that are homeless. And I would say for the most part that a single parent who is homeless with children can probably find an organization that's going to get them housing and even pay for that housing, often for 90 days into one of the other things that somebody could do, if they have any access to the internet, obviously, you're going to want to hide browser histories from somebody, but in your community, take a look go to the homeless organizations online. Very often they are having a specific program for families who are on the streets, or who might be on the streets, and they can use them. Every community has a women's not even just women only but an organization that serves people who are abused. And I know again, there, it's very hard for people to make that first call and get there. But these organizations are so good about coaching people on how to be more confident, what steps to take how to get out of a place. And they often have housing for a period of time as well. So those aren't long term solutions, but it's making that initial contact with the outside world can be so fruitful and can reduce the amount of money that somebody actually needs.
 
Marissa: You mentioned that you learned a couple strategies. Would you mind sharing?
 
Rob: Yeah, so one of them was, you know, just starting to save a little bit of money at a time. So, some of these strategies really are about the people we become as we start to change and look for something else. So how do you reduce your financial need to get in touch with nonprofits, there are usually friends or family that people have lost contact with through abusive relationships that I know of personally, that happens. And it's very hard for people to pick up the phone and make that call to somebody to say, “Hey, I'm in trouble, or I need help,” or, “here's what I need,” and it may be that they don't have anybody, most people have somebody they can go to. And there again, somebody may have an extra room in their house for a couple of weeks or a month, where somebody can get out pretty quickly and reduce the financial need that’s going to get them there. You mentioned very early that people are often controlled to where they aren't even allowed to work. And so, one of the other bright spots in our world today is that there's a very, very low unemployment rate. And so, there's a lot of people who think they can't get a job, that they don't have any skills, they haven't worked for six months, a year, two years. But the reality is when I walk around, there are for hire signs just about everywhere. And it may not be the ideal job, but it's usually enough for somebody to get moving and get started. So, a lot of the strategies are less about specific financial side, we'll come back to the financial a little bit and more on what opportunities are there. And can somebody start to feel a bit confident about what they're going to do. There's another strategy on the financial side that I do want to talk about. And this is for people that would be working, if they're working in a place where there's a retirement account, and they can put money into that retirement account that starts to money that is outside the control of anybody else. Now if they're in abusive relationship and somebody is monitoring every transaction in every paycheck that's going to be found pretty quickly. A lot of companies match these days. Somebody could be saving into a retirement account and depending on whether they're going to change jobs or not, if they leave that company, they may have access to money into we've worked with people who were just out of one of the companies that work with had a lot of people were actually just out of jail. And none of those people had ever saved any money before. In some of those people, after they'd worked in that company for years, started putting money in. And several of them made the comment, this was the first time I've ever had money in my life. They didn't have a lot of money but it was the first time they had money on the sidelines that they couldn't touch while they were working there. And some of them had moved on to another job, but or we're going to lose their apartment, and needed access to the $500 or $1,000 that they had saved, to be able to live until they were able to use a retirement account as a way to escape whatever else has happened for them. It's not the world's best strategy. But again, it's another place of just trying to find out, where is it that I can put some money together. And so sometimes you can use a 401k at work. And there may even be a match maybe free money from the employer on that, to start to stash some money away, that might be able to use be used in the right circumstances to buy a period of time of freedom.
 
Marissa: Do you know of any accounts outside of 401k’s that are like that. So high interest, like I know money market accounts sometimes have higher interest and banks like Capital One 360 and Ally Bank that don't actually have any brick or mortar banks have higher interest rates. But do you know of any accounts or anything like that any banks that would be good to use to stash money away little by little with higher interest rates?
 
Rob: Yeah, you know, when somebody is just getting started, or just trying to put some funds together. For the first few months of living, or even the first year of living, in the basics of financial planning, we like to have people have what are called emergency funds. So, if something wrong happens, there's money there. For somebody in the situation, who's just trying to get out and establish themselves with whatever kind of living situation, put food on the table and pay their basic utilities and gas bills, interest rate doesn't matter at all. So, it's nice to get a little bit of interest and if you put money into a bank, and you put it into a checking account, usually those checking accounts don't pay you any interest. But if you put it into a savings account, or like you said, if you can find a high yield savings account, whatever money you having in that account might earn half a percent or 1%. And so, your money just sitting there is earning a little bit of extra money for you. And it's a great thing to have. Don't ever discount that interest being paid is just extra money for you down the road. But it's really secondary, the purpose of having those emergency funds in place at all. The purpose, there is easy access to money. And whether it's paying you a quarter of a percent, half a percent or 1%, the bigger piece of it is, can I access it today when I need it. And so sometimes when you get into higher interest accounts, they may have a little bit of restrictions on it. But even if they don't, it's not so important whether you earn a little bit more a little bit less on your emergency funds. The most important thing is I can go to the ATM or to the bank or write a check and that money is there immediately. And so, while it's good to get those, it's not something I get too caught up in because again, I just want instant access when I need it. And that's you know, getting into the situation of financial abuse is one of the nice things today is somebody can go online, they can open up an account online, they can, if they can figure out how to get money there, which is sometimes the problem would be online systems and things, they can get all their statements delivered electronically. Or they can often in some cases, even turn them off, or set up a phantom email address to get it. So, there are ways to not have quite the same degree of paper trail that are out there, and so that's not a bad way to go for somebody who's just building these up and needs to keep a degree of secrecy around it. Obviously, in a better relationship, everybody knows where you know, who's got what and how it's all working. But because of the ability to do everything online today, it's not a bad way to go and even there's some app-based accounts now that, again, depending on the situation, some of them I believe, round up. So, if you're paying with a debit or credit card, and you pay $3.95 or something for five cents can go into a savings account. And if you pay $2.10, the 90 cents would go into a savings account. And I know somebody who is using one of those services, who ended up saving far more than she expected. Not enough to, you know, take a trip anywhere or anything big like that. But she was surprised at how quickly just rounding up actually added up for her. And that's how she built a little bit more actually than her emergency fund.
 
Marissa: That's a really good idea too, because then it's not like you said there's no paper trail, and it's automatic. So, it's not like you have to hide the change. It's off a debit card.
 
Rob: And it may I don't know how it would show up on the debit card statement, if somebody is really looking at it, you know that, hey, 45 cents once to XYZ app company, but somebody could explore that a little bit more and let you in, let me know, I'd be interested to hear. Yeah. So where can you squirrel away money. And cash is still the best way to do that. getting access to, like I said, trying to find other ways to save money, whether like an online bank account, one of these apps, money into a retirement account at work. Those are kind of three different ways I think that people might be able to think about, how do I start to put some money aside that I can just get to when I need it, for one case, can't always get to when you need, it's not the best strategy, but it can work in certain circumstances.
 
Marissa: But 401K's are great if the person is working or able to hold a job, as per their narcissist, like you said, because you're surviving without that money anyways, it's like it doesn't exist. And then one day, you get a letter in the mail saying that you have X amount of money saved up that you can move to an IRA or something if you needed to.
 
Rob: If you leave the employer, you can actually access into that, again, looking at a strategy, how do you get out? How do you build up a nest egg that if you need a couple of months of living expenses, you might be able to access it, the 401k could do that for certain people? And so that's an option. It's much better as a long-term strategy. But I'm just looking at ways ahead of you get money side-cared outside of the household where the abuser lives that maybe they don't even know about. And so that's one, I'm banks, or bricks and mortar banks, again, because you can actually walk in and make deposits. And even now you can turn off all the statements, and they can all be delivered electronically, I think from probably every bank, I think actually could prefer it. So those are just a couple of different ways where you could put money. The other piece competes have financial conversations with somebody who's trying to control you.
 
Unfortunately, there's probably no way to have that as a Healthy Working conversation. But if somebody has not yet been had all of their power, and all of their access, and all of their ability to have a say, taken away, and somebody starts to see that happening, a real clear way to find out whether this is healthy or not is to start to say, “Hey, we need to have a regular meeting about money.” And so, for somebody who's kind of going in that direction, where things aren't working, and start to say to their partner, let's have more clear-cut goals and conversations around money. And if that answer is, “No, I do all of this and you can't do it, you shouldn't do it, you're not capable of doing it.” It's just such a huge red flag in any relationship, that something isn't right. And so hopefully, if people use that, on the earlier side, they may recognize, oh, I've got to take some different steps here, I'd be there got to continue to advocate for that. I've got to get into a therapeutic relationship for me, and maybe this relationship as a whole or maybe, hey, this is just not going to work And I'm lucky I found out. Now, before this case got worse over time. And again, a lot of relationships don't do a good job of talking about money. But if you're in one, and you're not sure if it's in his relationship or not and you start to say let's talk about money, and I want to be involved in it. And you get shut down really, really quickly, and then also denigrated along the way, that's just such a clear sign and take it as a clear sign that something is not right. And you don't have to put up with it.
 
Marissa: That's awesome advice. And very true. There is a whole cycle of abuse, and I'm sure you're aware of but it starts off in the honeymoon phase and then travels to the tension building phase where you're walking on eggshells, and the survivor doesn't know what they can or can't say to piss off the narcissist and then an explosion happens. And once the explosion happens, that's when the cycle restarts and it keeps restarting. And I know I have a whole other podcast episode about the cycle of abuse and all that it entails. But once you start to see red flags, I think this goes back to confidence, like you were saying as well as you have to trust your instincts, you know, look for the yellow flags and the red flags and trust them. And if it doesn't feel right, then leave. If it doesn't feel right, then then take that as a clear sign.
 
Rob: Yeah, and if you don't have access to money to live your life, to me, that's a huge clear sign as well. It's just it's a fundamental way of how we all work in society that people can if they can afford it, want to go buy a cup of coffee, whether it's at the local deli or you know a $5 Frappuccino someplace depending on what they can afford, and they're taken to task for it and brought down in the in a not a positive way. And the conversation isn't, “Hey, we're trying to budget and that was outside of our budget. What can we do to fix this?” and it's all negative, negative, negative? Yeah, it's a huge issue in any relationship, and one that bears having significant conversations about whether it's really yourself or finding a therapist or a family member and saying how am I going to get this to change and if it doesn't change, probably not a relationship that’s ever going to work.  And again, little bits of confidence, putting a little bit of money away, frankly, having the confidence and I know, it's very difficult to say, I'd like to be involved in the conversation, because you're going to find out with that simple question, whether you're going to get a positive response, you're going to get that fair to middling responses could be a person that doesn't matter, you're going to get a really negative response. And so, the conversation around money, that behavior around money is very, very telling. And whether or not a relationship has a chance to really go anywhere or not. Now it can be fixed in a healthy relationship, and it just can't be in a toxic relationship. Again, one of the things about money is it's very tangible. It's very obvious what's happening with it, and so it can be used as a benchmark for the bigger relationship that might not be functioning well, like you talked about in the cycle before to the honeymoon phase, you're going to find out pretty quickly in the with the money part are you in the honeymoon phase is it all being taken away. And as opposed to, hey, let's go out to dinner, you know, and other things that might be more fulfilling and satisfying emotionally. Again, the money's a little bit of a dry part. But it's a huge area that you can gauge what's happening.
 
Marissa: You mentioned at the beginning, and so I don't want to get off of people who are still in abusive relationships and move to people who have left and find that they're struggling a little bit. A lot of the tips and tricks that you mentioned before where you know, the roundups in your bank account and saving the extra change in like a piggy bank or something and just watching that money grow and grow and grow, that would be really effective for people who have already left as a means of saving money. Because chances are, if you left an abusive relationship, where there was a lot of financial abuse, you're starting from ground zero, do you have any other ideas for people like that in those situations that can help them outside of the ones that we've mentioned already?
 
Rob: One of the things when people are just starting out, and for somebody who's gotten out of the relationship, they're now standing up on their own. Hopefully, they're talking to everybody to know what resources are available, whether that's section eight housing, or food stamps, or whatever it's called in your community just to cut the expense side of it a little bit. And then like I said, it's in today's environment, it's not always easy to find work that can support a full household, but it's usually fairly simple to find some work. And then so one of the things people have to do is, again, change that mindset to say, “How am I going to start to put little bits away?” and it's that round up. When my kids were younger, we had a big jug. And anytime we had some extra change, it all went in there and went into a place where we could see it, because it was that same piece of how do we make money tangible? And how do we know we're putting some away. So, whether you do it that way, a little bit into a bank account, probably one of these apps is even better than a bank account, because banks tend to charge a decent amount to people who don't have enough to keep in there right away. So those really don't change, it just becomes even more important than somebody that on their own, to build emergency funds. So that if a job is lost, or there's a health issue that comes up, there's some money there and credit cards aren't being used, and debt isn't there, and they don't have to go back to somebody else and ask for money. And so, money again becomes a symbol of when I start to have it in the bank, I'm starting to gain some independence. What we see also, and not everybody budgets, because budgeting is just people don't ever seem to like it, is every time you get paid, taking a little bit of it, and putting it someplace is a huge piece. So not just rounding up from change and not just throwing pennies into a big jug. Thinking out of every paycheck I get, I'm going to put 1% or 5% or $25 or $50 into the bank at the beginning and then into long term savings afterwards, is how people start to be able to step up a little bit.
 
We also see that people are carrying lots of debt, until I would I've come to understand sometimes an abusive relationship to that the debt is all carried by the person who's being abused. And so, they're even if they do move out, they may have car payments that are on cars they don't even actually own or don't have access to. And so somewhere along the way, and this is not a first couple of months issue, but it's a first year or two issue is just listing out everybody and every organization that you owe money to and how much it is every month and starting to focus on what's most important or not. And in some cases, it makes sense to not pay debt, and pay utility bills and housing bills and food first. So, sometimes we see people that are really struggling with debt, and they're just never going to make it and they're going to have to lose that car or if they own a condo or a house, they're going to have to lose that condo or house because they won't be able to feed their family otherwise. And we see a lot of times with debt collectors, or I've heard many, many times they're very vocal on the phone. And I've even talked to people that said I'm paying my car payment of $400 a month that I can't really afford. And I'm not, you know, I'm not turning the lights on in my house except for at night for an hour or something, because I can't pay my utility bill either, once. So, in that, in those cases, sometimes people have to really look at what are their fundamental core expenses to live as independently as possible, may not be a great style of living. That is what has to be paid first, food, utilities and place to live, and probably health insurance. The lender on your car probably doesn't need to be paid before you go to the grocery store. And so, people sometimes have to shift their priorities, because they're, they're responding to a loud person on the phone is saying they have to make a $250 payment. Instead of realizing no, they actually need  $150 of that to feed their kids. And so again, a lot of is just a mindset mind set shift that people have a hard time making, and understandably so. So, when they realize take care of food, utilities, and house first, put a little bit of money on the side. Next, all that other stuff is noise, and it's going to work itself out one way or the other.
 
Marissa: That's so true. And I just have two pieces that I want to snowball off of what you just said, because I think that what you just said is super important. First and foremost, when you said that you can take a percentage or a financial number, and kind of skim it off of the top of your weekly or bi-weekly or daily paycheck, you can actually set up bank accounts that will auto do that, like it'll auto deposit $25 of your deposit into a separate account. So, I do that actually, all the time, where x amount, or I did when I had my full-time job at the army, I think I did 10% or 15% of every paycheck would go into a bank account and Ally Bank that I just kind of forgot about and I didn't have to think about it. So, when I'd look at my bank statement, that money was already gone And I forgot about it. And it didn't exist in my budget. So that money was just being saved. And I'd have to budget around that money not being there.
 
Rob: Yeah, that a lot of people call that pay yourself first, take some money, like said right off the top that goes somewhere else, you can't touch it. And then you don't plan on it every month for your spending, and you've just saved some money, it's great way to go and if you can automate it even better.
 
Marissa: I know a lot of banks do. I don't know about every bank or anything. But that was a good point. So, thank you for bringing that up. And the second thing was, I love that you said the loud people on the phone, because I hate when they call because they are, they're loud, and they yell at you and they make you feel bad. A lot of the time, you can tell them, “Listen, I've had a change of finances, and I can't afford this payment, is there any way we can reduce the payment or is there any way that you can give me like a 60 day on hold or something, hold for 60 days or something,” and they'll call you back in 60 days, and then you can start paying again. But it gives you an opportunity to gather money, it gives you an opportunity to, like you said before prioritize, and it gives people an opportunity to not have to stress about so many things at once. Because I mean, you're totally right. A lot of the time the debt does follow the survivor because it's a mechanism of control from the abuser.
 
Rob: Yeah, and you're stuck with it. And those people are just going to have to wait, you know, and that goes back to that confidence, little pieces at a time competence just doesn't come overnight. But one of the things people can remember is, if you can't pay something, you can just tell them you can't pay it, and that you don't intend to pay it as well. And by the way, you don't want to be harassed over the phone. And so, it's just another way where we get to exhibit some self-determination and control, we may have to pay that debt at some point. And we may actually have voted. And so, I'm not saying if you can pay it just turn away from it. But it's this sort of looking for strategies and then also telling people who are not being kind to, you know, take a walk is always feels good to me. So, again, nothing financial about that one. But it is another financial strategy where it's Take care of yourself and the most important parts of yourself first. And then you can start to work on those things that are really around the edges from a survival point of view.
 
Marissa: That's a good way to build your confidence tell the telemarketers and the people that are that are hounding you for money to piss off.
 
Rob: You don't know them. I mean, they may be very nice people but you don't know they don't know you they're making judgments about you, you can make a couple of judgments back so.
 
Marissa: It’s a good plan. I think next time I get a phone call like that I'm just going to take a long walk off a short pier.
 
Rob: And I always try to be kind too, but sometimes you get people that you know, they're just never going to be nice and it might be the same person and sometimes you you've got to bring up your attitude level to match theirs unfortunately, but…
 
Marissa: Standing up for yourself is a big leap forward in healing from emotional abuse.
 
Rob: So, you know, I just don't think there's any when I think about it, like how you get started on savings and building some Financial Peace there's no like super-secret way of doing it. That's complicated that the regular people don't know about that's not it all comes down to very, very simple to talk about sometimes hard to do behaviors. And it is that little bit at a time, build the confidence. And then it just starts to bloom over time. And so, you know, as you're thinking about it, and people listening or thinking about it, you don't have to make it any more complicated than taking $25 out of every paycheck, or 5% out of every paycheck, or all of your change shows, or three, just simple to think about ways to do it. And you'll see it happening as you do it. And it's just exciting to watch when it happens.
 
Marissa: There are times where I forget that I automatically put money in an account. And I'll open that app and be like, Oh, my God, I have $500. Where did that come from? And it's in the grand scheme of life, It's not that much, but it's like a happy surprise for me.
 
Rob: Yeah. And then as you get further along, that either those will grow, or you'll say, Oh, I can use that $500 now to do something that I want to do, and not have to have, you know, don't have enough emergency funds in other places. And so, yeah, just it really ends up being a great thing, if you can just do a little bit at a time.
 
Marissa: The last thing I want to get back to in the very beginning, you said, a lot of people don't believe that they will have or deserve to have money. What do you tell those people when they say that?
 
Rob: Yeah, and it's interesting, because I don't always know where it's coming from, when that comment gets made. I think there's, again, a couple of things people can do about it.
 
One is, look around the people who you hang out with. And very often the conversation among those people is, I don't have anything, I'm never going to have anything. You know, the little guy can't get ahead in today's world. And people tend to hang out with people that have that same conversation who don't ever get anywhere, And because it's a self-fulfilling piece. So, part of it is where's all that messaging coming from? Is it coming from family, when you grew up? Is it coming from the people that you hang out with? Those are the two biggies. And if you can just recognize that those messages are coming from everybody around me, and I don't have to put up with it anymore. Again, we're talking mind shift here, or attitude shift to saying, I'm not going to do that. I want to live a better life than that. And I'm going to make some changes starting this week, this month, and next month to get there. That is always the starting point for how people go from that never have any money to I'm building money, reserves, wealth, retirement, whatever they want to call it. And so, the messages that are around you every day, that's a big piece of it. The other piece of it is we live in a world where we are messaged all the time on ways to spend our money. And so, like I always want the new phone or I want the new plan or the new shoes or I want to eat it Applebee's instead of eating at home. And so, people make lots and lots of decisions that they don't really think too much about, because they've been pulled in some direction or other. Jia has to have this to be happy, or I don't want to do this. So, I'm going to just spend money to make it happen. And I see that I can eat at home, I can eat healthier at home, and far less money than by eating out. And so again, depending where somebody is and their process of putting some money together, there are many ways that we spend money that we really don't have to. And so, we're again, for somebody starting out who's not got enough necessarily to do a lot of extra, that's a little bit harder to do. But as it starts to be a little bit more, what people tend to do is they make more, they spend more, and they're still in that exact same spot, no emergency funds, no money going into retirement account. So, for somebody who's getting out of an abusive relationship and may have gotten into their first job, and maybe now has like, you know, just enough to make things happen. It's bare bones and whatever you have to do, you have to but then six months from now a year from now you get a raise, or you move to a different place, and you get a little bit more money. When most of the time happens, people just spend that money. And what they don't say is I can spend a little bit of that money but more of that needs to go to savings more that needs to go to pay off debt, or some of that needs to go to retirement accounts. And so, it's those critical decisions, and people are just starting to move from that bare bones to that next level that really will make the difference over the next 5-10 -20 years.
 
Marissa: That's awesome. Thank you so much for all that. Is there anything else you want to talk about any programs or anything that you're working on that you want to shout out?
 
Rob: So, I'm a you know, a financial planner, and part of my specialty is families who've got a member with down syndrome or autism or some kind of intellectual developmental disabilities, although really, I work with all kinds of people around the country. And if people want to find out more about me, they can go to RobWrubel.com, and just kind of see what we're about, if it's a good fit. Like I said, I'm so excited that you decided to have me on and had lots of conversations and thinking through, see when somebody is really just getting started and how do they get out of the relationship and have a get some control and power back. I just realize it's such an important topic, not just for people who are in abusive relationships, but really for just about everybody. Because those very, very basic behaviors don't change. Now, somebody's ability to own it and feel good about it, are obviously different. And, and so I just really want to say thank you for the work that you're doing, and encouraging people to get out there and have happy and more positive on the financial side lives and just, you know, blossom as people. It's unfortunate that so many people have the need, but it's exciting that you're out there helping them.
 
Marissa: I really appreciate that. Thank you. And if we collectively help one person get out and not go back, I think the percentage right now is 80% of people that leave abusive relationships go back, and a large percentage of that is financially based, then I think that we've succeeded, you know, and thank you for everything that you've shared. You've given a lot of awesome tips to save money, you’re just such a good person and I encourage anyone who's interested in financial planning or finding out more information to reach out to rob. He is friendly and fun and he's a wealth of knowledge. You can find his book Financial Freedom for Special Needs Families is available on Amazon, as well as his website, www.RobWrubel.com and feel free to reach out to him with any financial based questions. I'm sure he'd be happy to work with you and answer them for you.
 
Hey! If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching.  Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!

Healing From Emotional Abuse: Abuse and Narcissism During Covid

Get Your FREE COPY of  my book, 3 Signs of A Toxic Relationship, Now...
Can you heal from abuse?  What do I do after leaving my narcissist? What does a healthy relationship look like? These concerns cross the minds of over 20 people every minute; over 28,800 people every day.  And the sad fact is, we still don’t talk about it enough.  Healing from Emotional Abuse isn’t a bandaid situation.  But it doesn’t have to be a five year process either. Millions of other survivors around the worlds entire lives have been impacted by their narcissist.  Yours doesn’t have to.  To show you how to live a free, confident and peaceful life, your host and Founder of the Healing From Emotional Abuse Philosophy, Marissa F. Cohen.
 
Welcome to a special episode of Healing From Emotional Abuse.  I know that we’ve all received email blasts about Covid-19 from every mailing list we’ve ever signed up for, at least I did, about what every company is doing to take precautions.  That’s great.  I’m joining those people, but more as a PSA. 
 
In the midst of this craziness with Corona-pocalypse, I want to spread a Kindness PSA.  Abusers and Narcissists are most likely working from home now, as most people, at least in various states are confined to their homes.  And even if they're not, the world is in a chaotic state.  That became really apparent when people started fighting in supermarket aisles over toilet paper, and I almost got run over in Walmart by another shopper to get to the gatorade first.
 
The heightened stress will typically increase abusive explosions and survivors don’t have anywhere to go. Everyone is quarantined, self-quarantined, or just encouraged to stay in their homes.  Leaving is hard when the world is not in financial ruin and slowly crumbling to the ground around us.  However, now, when everyone is afraid of Covid / Coronavirus and trying to manage and reduce the spreading of it, it will be more difficult for survivors to leave their abusers.  For a few reasons.
 
Shelters might be stricter on taking in new people for fear of infecting the safe house and other survivors living there.
 
There will be less of a chance or opportunity for them to flee safely, because the abuser will always be home. They will be monitored.
 
Gathering and securing any money to leave will be more difficult, because there are limited resources for securing  income.
 
The chance for fatalities becomes heightened from both Mob Mentality, and from Abusive Explosions.
 
The healthcare and hospitals that survivors would go to after an incident will most likely be full, or limited in the medical care that they can provide.
 
 
 
For all of these reasons, I wanted to try and do my part in spreading kindness and empathy towards each other.  We are living through a scary time.  If not for us personally, then for friends and family members who will be more aggressively affected by this covid virus.   
 
People become selfish, and aggressive, with an “every man for themselves” mentality.  THAT is the most dangerous part.  The fact that there are videos of people fighting over a roll of toilet paper makes me sad.  This  is the most opportune time to deny psychologists the explanation that stressful situations tear communities apart, and instead come together and help support each other.  We are more likely to survive and thrive in times of stress and hardship when every man is for everyone - sharing resources, and support.  Those of us that have outside the home battles in addition to the inside the home battles, like abuse, need empathy and comfort more than ever.  And I hope that this strong and beautiful community can come together and give them that.
 
But, that does not mean to put your family at risk.  Some things you can do for survivors at this time, that won’t put you or your family in jeopardy are:
 
Give the survivors in your life love and support to know that they aren’t alone, and have a place to run or people that will empower them when they are ready and able to leave.
 
Safety Planning Guide
 
Help them research shelters and nonprofits that are available when the time is right.
 
Safety Planning Guide
 
Help them find places to secure money, maybe into a separate bank account where their abuser cannot access it or see it.
 
That doesn’t mean to give them money, but helping them keep their money safe. A lot of times people will hide change or hide money throughout their house, and that might pose a problem when the abuser is always home.  Financial abuse.
 
Safety Planning Guide
 
Help to create a safety plan with them of where and how they can get out and go when the quarantines are over, and they have a safe opportunity to leave.
 
The reason I do not recommend invite survivors into your house in times like this is, the abuser will have plenty of time to search for them, and that could put you and your family in danger.  You do not want the abuser to come break down your door and hurt you or your family.  To be proactive in keeping everybody safe, I would follow these four guidelines in helping, so that when quarantines are over and when people can leave their houses again, they’re very prepared.
 
Safety Planning Guide
 
I also think it’s important to mention that in crisis situations and natural disasters, the rate of emotional abuse, physical abuse, verbal abuse, rape and sexual assault also increase.  That could be being displaced, in a shelter, staying in an unfamiliar place, or even in your home.  But people are losing control of their reality.  Everything in the routine is different - so people lose their minds and, abusers grab for control where they can.  I am by NO MEANS justifying any sort of violent act — not rape or sexual assault, emotional abuse, physical abuse, financial abuse, or any sort of abuse.  I just wanted to help bring situational awareness. 
 
Be aware of your surroundings.  If you’re in a shelter or know someone in a shelter, be cautious and aware or encourage them to do so.  If you’re staying with someone, anyone, a stranger, a friend of a friend, a friend of yours, a family member, or anyone outside of your normal housing situation, you can be at an increased risk of emotional abuse, sexual assault, physical abuse.  Take precautions to keep yourself safe. 
 
I can’t stress enough the importance of evading the mob mentality.  In crisis situations, there are more fatalities from looting, riots and chaos, than there are from the actual virus. If everyone could reach out to someone they know that might need a little bit of comfort, that could make the world a better place, and make this scary situation a little easier to handle. Reach out to the elderly people in your family and in your neighborhood.  See if there is anything you can do to help them, or make this easier.  A lot of elderly people are walking around supermarkets just trying to get the bare minimum, and there’s nothing left for them.  Do you party, do what you can, do what you can to make this easier for the people who are at a heightened risk.  And if that means giving up one roll of toilet paper, do it.
Keep yourself, your family, and your community safe.  Wash your hands with soap, not just sanitizer.  And drink a lot of water.
 
Talk to you soon!  Send loving energy out there!  That way, we can all get through this together.
 
Safety Planning Guide
 
Hey! If you enjoyed this podcast, you have to check out www.MarissaFayeCohen.com/Private-Coaching. Marissa would love to develop a made-for-you healing plan to heal from emotional abuse. She does all the work, and you just show up. Stop feeling stuck, alone, and hurt, and live a free, confident, and peaceful life.  Don’t forget to subscribe to the Healing From Emotional Abuse podcast, and follow us on Facebook at www.facebook.com/marissafcohen, and instagram @Marissa.Faye.Cohen. We’d love to see you there!